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2 hours ago, ShoreRam said:

We are where we are but getting rid of another manager would be an ill thought out choice. Any sane business owner would try and find some stability at some point. 

Cause and effect. The issue isn't getting rid of another manager, the issue is recruiting a manager we don't feel the need to jettison. 

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Rooney’s brief was to keep us up this season. He’s done that. The football hasn’t been pretty and the defending in this last 7 games has been horrendous. However, we did have a very good run if I recall and played some good football.....I’m pretty sure I saw us beat a few top teams and were top or close to the top of the form table at one point - and yes..... Rooney was the manager.  

There have been mitigating circumstances too, for example, you could see in the short time he played today what a difference Curtis Davies would have made to our season if he’d been fit - he’s a leader and organiser - and a bloody solid championship defender (not ball player!!). Further, losing arguable one of the championships best players in Bielik clearly shattered the spine - a bit like when we lost George Thorne for so long and struggled to find someone suitable to fill that role. I’ll throw in Lawrence being out for so long, losing Wisdom, Gregory, Menghi and the enduring injury to CKR and it’s understandable that we’ve scraped home - look at the bench strength - its just not there - I’m sure one or two of the kids we have will go on to be solid championship players but lets not suggest our crop of kids were the same as the crop Alex Ferguson benefitted from at Man Utd.

We were bottom when he took over. He’s made mistakes along the way - and at times some strange team choices - but ultimately we stayed up. Mission accomplished - and I honestly think he will take us forward next season. COYR.

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7 hours ago, Dava75 said:

Rooney’s brief was to keep us up this season. He’s done that. The football hasn’t been pretty and the defending in this last 7 games has been horrendous. However, we did have a very good run if I recall and played some good football.....I’m pretty sure I saw us beat a few top teams and were top or close to the top of the form table at one point - and yes..... Rooney was the manager.  

There have been mitigating circumstances too, for example, you could see in the short time he played today what a difference Curtis Davies would have made to our season if he’d been fit - he’s a leader and organiser - and a bloody solid championship defender (not ball player!!). Further, losing arguable one of the championships best players in Bielik clearly shattered the spine - a bit like when we lost George Thorne for so long and struggled to find someone suitable to fill that role. I’ll throw in Lawrence being out for so long, losing Wisdom, Gregory, Menghi and the enduring injury to CKR and it’s understandable that we’ve scraped home - look at the bench strength - its just not there - I’m sure one or two of the kids we have will go on to be solid championship players but lets not suggest our crop of kids were the same as the crop Alex Ferguson benefitted from at Man Utd.

We were bottom when he took over. He’s made mistakes along the way - and at times some strange team choices - but ultimately we stayed up. Mission accomplished - and I honestly think he will take us forward next season. COYR.

Saved me a lot of writing buddy. Did enough to justify his chance to lead us again next season. Yesterday in many ways summed up why we struggled in the final months. Stupid, individual errors by players at crucial times, and the lack of a real leader in central defence/midfield.

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10 hours ago, Dava75 said:

Rooney’s brief was to keep us up this season. He’s done that. The football hasn’t been pretty and the defending in this last 7 games has been horrendous. However, we did have a very good run if I recall and played some good football.....I’m pretty sure I saw us beat a few top teams and were top or close to the top of the form table at one point - and yes..... Rooney was the manager.  

There have been mitigating circumstances too, for example, you could see in the short time he played today what a difference Curtis Davies would have made to our season if he’d been fit - he’s a leader and organiser - and a bloody solid championship defender (not ball player!!). Further, losing arguable one of the championships best players in Bielik clearly shattered the spine - a bit like when we lost George Thorne for so long and struggled to find someone suitable to fill that role. I’ll throw in Lawrence being out for so long, losing Wisdom, Gregory, Menghi and the enduring injury to CKR and it’s understandable that we’ve scraped home - look at the bench strength - its just not there - I’m sure one or two of the kids we have will go on to be solid championship players but lets not suggest our crop of kids were the same as the crop Alex Ferguson benefitted from at Man Utd.

We were bottom when he took over. He’s made mistakes along the way - and at times some strange team choices - but ultimately we stayed up. Mission accomplished - and I honestly think he will take us forward next season. COYR.

Spot on.

Plus listening to Rooney's post-match interview yesterday there was a lot more said in a much more passionate way. He also expressed his loyalty to the club. #COYR

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4 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Saved me a lot of writing buddy. Did enough to justify his chance to lead us again next season. Yesterday in many ways summed up why we struggled in the final months. Stupid, individual errors by players at crucial times, and the lack of a real leader in central defence/midfield.

Got to confess you've surprised me @i-Ram, I thought that you would be in the out camp. Probably because you're generally "outspoken" but even when I don't agree with you I do appreciate your arguments. Personally I wouldn't be disappointed with either route, stay or sent packing. As has been said by both camps, there are so many negatives but also mitigating circumstances. I would add though that I would like to see some changes in his back room staff if he stays. They may all be more than capable but I would just like some experience there to help out.

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9 hours ago, richinspain said:

Got to confess you've surprised me @i-Ram, I thought that you would be in the out camp. Probably because you're generally "outspoken" but even when I don't agree with you I do appreciate your arguments. Personally I wouldn't be disappointed with either route, stay or sent packing. As has been said by both camps, there are so many negatives but also mitigating circumstances. I would add though that I would like to see some changes in his back room staff if he stays. They may all be more than capable but I would just like some experience there to help out.

I would suggest I am not shy of stating my opinion, rather than ‘outspoken’. 😂

Rooney should never have been signed as a player. Another lousy Morris ‘profile’ arrangement. Anyone who saw him perform in the MLS could see he was still skilful, but had the legs of Devon Lock. His signing immediately put Cocu in difficulty, and made hits position pretty untenable. Cocu’s vulnerability was further fuelled by Rooney, his agent and his mates. We would have finished higher this season in my opinion if Cocu had stayed, and been able to use Bielik and Kaz, and make a few more (loan) signings in January. Cocu had too many coaches foisted upon him with Rooney and Rosenior. He should have been allowed to rely on his usual 2 mates - the quiet one with the dark hair, and the curly haired one who smiled and hugged a lot.

Anyway, Rooney got the management gig, and was not allowed to select his own support team. Meddling Mel thinking initially that management by committee was a great thing, and also that some bloke who is keen on Newcastle might help lurking iat the back of the stand. Rooney however committed himself fully to the task, and dealt reasonably well with the cards dealt to him, and the setbacks of losing Curt, Bielik, and many others during the last 6 months. His loan signings were all pretty ok in January, but again his luck wasn’t in with injuries. Obviously a bit tactically naive, but he gave opportunities to a lot of our youth, and at the end of the day kept us in the league, when a great many in November/December were convinced we were going down. He did so with players demotivated by not being paid, all the off pitch drama, and and with many senior pros at the end of their contract and not likely to get any renewal with the financing uncertainty.

Rooney hasn’t as yet evidenced that he has his own preferred style, but he has very good contacts which hopefully will mean he will secure that players in the next few month he wants, to play the way he wants. In my book he has just about done enough to justify another season to see if he can use those contacts, and also put into practice the knowledge he would have gained from hist time under Fergusson, Jose, Van Gaal, etc. I would push Rosenior out (nice bloke, deserves his own management job in the first or second division), etc., and get a decent experienced number two, and not one who has hair issues and likes to use an umbrella to keep himself dry. 

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2 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I would suggest I am not shy of stating my opinion, rather than ‘outspoken’. 😂

Rooney should never have been signed as a player. Another lousy Morris ‘profile’ arrangement. Anyone who saw him perform in the MLS could see he was still skilful, but had the legs of Devon Lock. His signing immediately put Cocu in difficulty, and made hits position pretty untenable. Cocu’s vulnerability was further fuelled by Rooney, his agent and his mates. We would have finished higher this season in my opinion if Cocu had stayed, and been able to use Bielik and Kaz, and make a few more (loan) signings in January. Cocu had too many coaches foisted upon him with Rooney and Rosenior. He should have been allowed to rely on his usual 2 mates - the quiet one with the dark hair, and the curly haired one who smiled and hugged a lot.

Anyway, Rooney got the management gig, and was not allowed to select his own support team. Meddling Mel thinking initially that management by committee was a great thing, and also that some bloke who is keen on Newcastle might help lurking iat the back of the stand. Rooney however committed himself fully to the task, and dealt reasonably well with the cards dealt to him, and the setbacks of losing Curt, Bielik, and many others during the last 6 months. His loan signings were all pretty ok in January, but again his luck wasn’t in with injuries. Obviously a bit tactically naive, but he gave opportunities to a lot of our youth, and at the end of the day kept us in the league, when a great many in November/December were convinced we were going down. He did so with players demotivated by not being paid, all the off pitch drama, and and with many senior pros at the end of their contract and not likely to get any renewal with the financing uncertainty.

Rooney hasn’t as yet evidenced that he has his own preferred style, but he has very good contacts which hopefully will mean he will secure that players in the next few month he wants, to play the way he wants. In my book he has just about done enough to justify another season to see if he can use those contacts, and also put into practice the knowledge he would have gained from hist time under Fergusson, Jose, Van Gaal, etc. I would push Rosenior out (nice bloke, deserves his own management job in the first or second division), etc., and get a decent experienced number two, and not one who has hair issues and likes to use an umbrella to keep himself dry. 

Why should Rosenior have to get a managerial job lower down the pyramid and not Rooney, he has more coaching experience and qualifications? Not quite sure why Wazza has the right to jump the queue 🤔

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7 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I would suggest I am not shy of stating my opinion, rather than ‘outspoken’. 😂

Rooney should never have been signed as a player. Another lousy Morris ‘profile’ arrangement. Anyone who saw him perform in the MLS could see he was still skilful, but had the legs of Devon Lock. His signing immediately put Cocu in difficulty, and made hits position pretty untenable. Cocu’s vulnerability was further fuelled by Rooney, his agent and his mates. We would have finished higher this season in my opinion if Cocu had stayed, and been able to use Bielik and Kaz, and make a few more (loan) signings in January. Cocu had too many coaches foisted upon him with Rooney and Rosenior. He should have been allowed to rely on his usual 2 mates - the quiet one with the dark hair, and the curly haired one who smiled and hugged a lot.

Anyway, Rooney got the management gig, and was not allowed to select his own support team. Meddling Mel thinking initially that management by committee was a great thing, and also that some bloke who is keen on Newcastle might help lurking iat the back of the stand. Rooney however committed himself fully to the task, and dealt reasonably well with the cards dealt to him, and the setbacks of losing Curt, Bielik, and many others during the last 6 months. His loan signings were all pretty ok in January, but again his luck wasn’t in with injuries. Obviously a bit tactically naive, but he gave opportunities to a lot of our youth, and at the end of the day kept us in the league, when a great many in November/December were convinced we were going down. He did so with players demotivated by not being paid, all the off pitch drama, and and with many senior pros at the end of their contract and not likely to get any renewal with the financing uncertainty.

Rooney hasn’t as yet evidenced that he has his own preferred style, but he has very good contacts which hopefully will mean he will secure that players in the next few month he wants, to play the way he wants. In my book he has just about done enough to justify another season to see if he can use those contacts, and also put into practice the knowledge he would have gained from hist time under Fergusson, Jose, Van Gaal, etc. I would push Rosenior out (nice bloke, deserves his own management job in the first or second division), etc., and get a decent experienced number two, and not one who has hair issues and likes to use an umbrella to keep himself dry. 

Outspoken Forumite @i-Ram in Rooney Rant Shocker!

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3 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Why should Rosenior have to get a managerial job lower down the pyramid and not Rooney, he has more coaching experience and qualifications? Not quite sure why Wazza has the right to jump the queue 🤔

Because Rosenior, whilst a nice guy, is something of a wimp. He had a chance to make his case late last year, but was happy that Rooney should take the reins and he would gain more experience as a No. 2. He has no great profile either.  Rooney will attract by transfer, and be offered by loan, better players than would come the way of Rosenior. No brainer really out of the two. Not sure badges are overly important anyway, other than meeting FA rules. I think Rooney needs to learn a few more words rather than get himself a badge.

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22 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I would suggest I am not shy of stating my opinion, rather than ‘outspoken’. 😂

Rooney should never have been signed as a player. Another lousy Morris ‘profile’ arrangement. Anyone who saw him perform in the MLS could see he was still skilful, but had the legs of Devon Lock. His signing immediately put Cocu in difficulty, and made hits position pretty untenable. Cocu’s vulnerability was further fuelled by Rooney, his agent and his mates. We would have finished higher this season in my opinion if Cocu had stayed, and been able to use Bielik and Kaz, and make a few more (loan) signings in January. Cocu had too many coaches foisted upon him with Rooney and Rosenior. He should have been allowed to rely on his usual 2 mates - the quiet one with the dark hair, and the curly haired one who smiled and hugged a lot.

Anyway, Rooney got the management gig, and was not allowed to select his own support team. Meddling Mel thinking initially that management by committee was a great thing, and also that some bloke who is keen on Newcastle might help lurking iat the back of the stand. Rooney however committed himself fully to the task, and dealt reasonably well with the cards dealt to him, and the setbacks of losing Curt, Bielik, and many others during the last 6 months. His loan signings were all pretty ok in January, but again his luck wasn’t in with injuries. Obviously a bit tactically naive, but he gave opportunities to a lot of our youth, and at the end of the day kept us in the league, when a great many in November/December were convinced we were going down. He did so with players demotivated by not being paid, all the off pitch drama, and and with many senior pros at the end of their contract and not likely to get any renewal with the financing uncertainty.

Rooney hasn’t as yet evidenced that he has his own preferred style, but he has very good contacts which hopefully will mean he will secure that players in the next few month he wants, to play the way he wants. In my book he has just about done enough to justify another season to see if he can use those contacts, and also put into practice the knowledge he would have gained from hist time under Fergusson, Jose, Van Gaal, etc. I would push Rosenior out (nice bloke, deserves his own management job in the first or second division), etc., and get a decent experienced number two, and not one who has hair issues and likes to use an umbrella to keep himself dry. 

Thanks for the reply. As I said, although I don't always agree with your stance you do put across a very good argument for your beliefs. I am pretty firmly on the fence with regards Rooney continuing. There are so many things in the negative box, but I also agree with everything you put in his favour. I really wouldn't be too upset whether he stays or he gets the boot, but am probably swaying towards giving him the chance with his own players.

The one thing that I am convinced about though is that I agree with half of your last sentence. He needs desperately experienced help, whether it be someone who has been a manager (I do think that Mac as his official number 2 would work if it was a mutual decision, but fear that Rooney's recent tetchyness when questioned about Mac being excluded suggests that it would be impossible) or an experienced number 2. Someone like Mike Phelan for example. The rumours about Scholes (was it?) would definitely worry me as as far as I'm aware he hasn't got any experience either. Please don't let it be a job for a mate. Rooney's managerial future depends on his next job, be that at Derby or elsewhere. Nigel Clough got battered because he stuck with a back room staff that many felt weren't up to it. I think that most successful managers have a good number 2 by their side.

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The earlier posts speculating on an American led consortium appear to have been removed. Perhaps understandably.

The one point that I did want to make though is that if Rooney is in any way involved in the takeover of the club, I would not feel comfortable about that.

Derby County can never be seen as a pet project like Salford City.

The manager cannot be part owner where he cannot be removed from his post.

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5 minutes ago, richinspain said:

Thanks for the reply. As I said, although I don't always agree with your stance you do put across a very good argument for your beliefs. I am pretty firmly on the fence with regards Rooney continuing. There are so many things in the negative box, but I also agree with everything you put in his favour. I really wouldn't be too upset whether he stays or he gets the boot, but am probably swaying towards giving him the chance with his own players.

The one thing that I am convinced about though is that I agree with half of your last sentence. He needs desperately experienced help, whether it be someone who has been a manager (I do think that Mac as his official number 2 would work if it was a mutual decision, but fear that Rooney's recent tetchyness when questioned about Mac being excluded suggests that it would be impossible) or an experienced number 2. Someone like Mike Phelan for example. The rumours about Scholes (was it?) would definitely worry me as as far as I'm aware he hasn't got any experience either. Please don't let it be a job for a mate. Rooney's managerial future depends on his next job, be that at Derby or elsewhere. Nigel Clough got battered because he stuck with a back room staff that many felt weren't up to it. I think that most successful managers have a good number 2 by their side.

I really think Rooney doesn’t rate McClaren. Manager of England when we had the golden generation and failed to get to the Euro’s in 2008. 

Phelan would be a good shout, or any other gnarled number 2 with c15/20 years under their belt.

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1 minute ago, i-Ram said:

I really think Rooney doesn’t rate McClaren. Manager of England when we had the golden generation and failed to get to the Euro’s in 2008. 

Phelan would be a good shout, or any other gnarled number 2 with c15/20 years under their belt.

I had similar thoughts about Mac and Rooney. Mac could never make a decision, could never leave out one of his favourites, thats why he's never succeeded as a manager, he wanted to be liked too much. You really do have to be a complete bar steward like Fergie, Clough snr, etc.

I actually think Rooney could have that mindset. Give him next season, he's a street fighter and has had a baptism of fire as a manager. He's capable of learning quickly and adapting his team to what they are capable of rather than what he thought they could do.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

I had similar thoughts about Mac and Rooney. Mac could never make a decision, could never leave out one of his favourites, thats why he's never succeeded as a manager, he wanted to be liked too much. You really do have to be a complete bar steward like Fergie, Clough snr, etc.

I actually think Rooney could have that mindset. Give him next season, he's a street fighter and has had a baptism of fire as a manager. He's capable of learning quickly and adapting his team to what they are capable of rather than what he thought they could do.

Where do you get the impression he's able to learn quickly and is able to adapt?

I'd say we have seen the complete opposite to that this season,in fact one of his major problems is that he's been unable to play to the strengths of several key players.

Mind you I can see why you think Mac was a failure,he certainly didn't lead us to the brink of relegation to league 1,instead he was messing about challenging for promotion to the premiership and providing the best football played by a Derby county side in years.

What was he thinking of?

No wonder waynes not impressed.

Edited by kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong
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5 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

I had similar thoughts about Mac and Rooney. Mac could never make a decision, could never leave out one of his favourites, thats why he's never succeeded as a manager, he wanted to be liked too much. You really do have to be a complete bar steward like Fergie, Clough snr, etc.

I actually think Rooney could have that mindset. Give him next season, he's a street fighter and has had a baptism of fire as a manager. He's capable of learning quickly and adapting his team to what they are capable of rather than what he thought they could do.

Learning and adapting...Rooney.....when have we seen that in the previous 35 games 🤔

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Just now, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Where do you get the impression he's able to learn quickly and is able to adapt?

I'd say we have seen the complete opposite to that this season,in fact one of his major problems is that he's been unable to play to the strengths of several key players.

Just my opinion mate. Theres no way of knowing if Rooney will make a good manager in the future, its just our own opinions at the end of the day.

Mine is that he'll be successful. Lets debate it in a couple of years time.

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Just now, Jimbo Ram said:

Learning and adapting...Rooney.....when have we seen that in the previous 35 games 🤔

We'll see, if I'm wrong it won't be the first time. I just think Rooney is smart enough to analyse his mistakes and learn from them.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

We'll see, if I'm wrong it won't be the first time. I just think Rooney is smart enough to analyse his mistakes and learn from them.

I agree. I found his latest interview interesting. Much more 'at it'. Like he'd held back this season, was being balanced. But now he's kept us up and can start over, it's like...right, my way or the highway.

Edited by RoyMac5
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Just my opinion mate. Theres no way of knowing if Rooney will make a good manager in the future, its just our own opinions at the end of the day.

Mine is that he'll be successful. Lets debate it in a couple of years time.

I appreciate that,but I'm genuinely interested as to where you have drawn that conclusion from?

If it's just a hunch then fair enough,let's see how it pans out.

Edited by kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong
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