Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[Eddie]

Perhaps it's time for AFC Derby.

[IslandExile]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

This is too serious for that. 

Are you old enough to remember the end of Pickering's ownership, it's nerve-wracking stuff atm.

I'm trying to remember, was it then that I lost the one share I had in the club - and that gave me priority booking on tickets for big games?

But, yeah, we've nearly gone bust a few times. Someone mentioned the closest I remember when Stuart Webb brought in Maxwell.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, DontTrustTheDevilInside said:

Who? The administrator or Mel who bought it off the club or someone else? I’m sure this post doesn’t make sense

That's the other thing, just how many ltd company's has Mel invented to 'fudge' things at DCFC?

[Mostyn6]

1 minute ago, DontTrustTheDevilInside said:

Who? The administrator or Mel who bought it off the club or someone else? I’m sure this post doesn’t make sense

the stadium transferred from one business to another business, but the debt for a loan is on the club against the stadium, as a simple deduction, this would indicate that the two businesses both fall under the same parent company, which, if the club goes into administration, will also be in administration.

So simply, every business connected with Derby County will be in administration as the one owning the stadium is the one carrying the debt! (MSD loan). So when someone negotiates to buy the club, they will be buying the whole caboodle!

Stop making a distinction between the Club and Mel, they are not separate entities! The CLUB IS MEL!

 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

I'm trying to remember, was it then that I lost the one share I had in the club - and that gave me priority booking on tickets for big games?

But, yeah, we've nearly gone bust a few times. Someone mentioned the closest I remember when Stuart Webb brought in Maxwell.

Yeah, but I particularly meant Pickering's stubborn refusal to 'do the best' for the club when selling us.

[DontTrustTheDevilInside]

14 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

the stadium transferred from one business to another business, but the debt for a loan is on the club against the stadium, as a simple deduction, this would indicate that the two businesses both fall under the same parent company, which, if the club goes into administration, will also be in administration.

So simply, every business connected with Derby County will be in administration as the one owning the stadium is the one carrying the debt! (MSD loan). So when someone negotiates to buy the club, they will be buying the whole caboodle!

Stop making a distinction between the Club and Mel, they are not separate entities! The CLUB IS MEL!

 

Not necessarily, I’ve worked in finance, Mel as a director can put up an asset that’s not part of the group as collateral. The announcement was pretty clear that it was sold out of the club (part of group wouldn’t be this) and I don’t think would clear ffp if it was just part of a group.

If you could just transfer within group every club would do this every week, they challenged Man City on the owners other companies sponsoring the club, doubt it would be this easy.

Also as you put loan from msd is against the stadium, surely they own it if that happens and it doesn’t go through as an asset in administration? Someone must have to buy/rent off msd

Edited May 7, 2021 by DontTrustTheDevilInside

[Mostyn6]

11 minutes ago, DontTrustTheDevilInside said:

Not necessarily, I’ve worked in finance, Mel as a director can put up an asset that’s not part of the group as collateral. The announcement was pretty clear that it was sold out of the club (part of group wouldn’t be this) and I don’t think would clear ffp if it was just part of a group.

If you could just transfer within group every club would do this every week, they challenged Man City on the owners other companies sponsoring the club, doubt it would be this easy.

Also as you put loan from msd is against the stadium, surely they own it if that happens and it doesn’t go through as an asset in administration? Someone must have to buy/rent off msd

if you've got finance experience, I wonder if you've got experience or knowledge of debt and administration (genuine question), my understanding is that you put a business into administration when there is unpayable/unmanagable debt? Is that correct? A creditor can issue winding up procedings, and an owner can call in administrators to basically strip everything and sell on?

So, the question is, what debt would put Derby into Admin? I can think of only two debts. The loan, and the player and staff wages.

realistically, the loan will be more crippling than staff wages, as (theoretically) you cannot dodge the loan, but you can sell, make redundant or furlough staff.

So then the stadium loan would put MEL into admin, not the club. Surely?

[DontTrustTheDevilInside]

8 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

if you've got finance experience, I wonder if you've got experience or knowledge of debt and administration (genuine question), my understanding is that you put a business into administration when there is unpayable/unmanagable debt? Is that correct? A creditor can issue winding up procedings, and an owner can call in administrators to basically strip everything and sell on?

So, the question is, what debt would put Derby into Admin? I can think of only two debts. The loan, and the player and staff wages.

realistically, the loan will be more crippling than staff wages, as (theoretically) you cannot dodge the loan, but you can sell, make redundant or furlough staff.

So then the stadium loan would put MEL into admin, not the club. Surely?

Finance as in business loans etc sorry.

Accounting iffy

Administration... nada

Football club admin less than that

I think it’s any creditor no matter how small can issue wind up, whether the club can afford to pay the small ones to make them go away may be a factor though, so could be just the people who supply electricity or something stupid like that.

A Club is a business like anything else so you’d assume they have numerous suppliers also. Some must be big ish

Staff get made redundant, something different happens with players because we bought Marshall and Byrne off Wigan they weren’t made redundant, in fact I’ve never heard of a player been made redundant, no idea how that works, they must not officially be staff in a traditional sense.

No idea who the loan was to but it was made to seem like the club not wherever the stadium is now, so if Msd issue winding up I would guess it’s the club and then they claim the stadium off Mel for failing in his duties to pay as a director

Edited May 7, 2021 by DontTrustTheDevilInside

[DontTrustTheDevilInside]

Sorry if that doesn’t help much, just know in my old job the company got a loan and as part of it the director/owner put their house (which definitely wasn’t owned by the company) in as part of the loan guarantee. So I know it doesn’t have to be within the company

[CornwallRam]

The situation is clearly concerning. Personally, I'm more worried about Alonso actually completing the takeover than either relegation or administration. He's too close to Matt Southhall and he deliberately wrecked Charlton to enrich himself. 

 

My question to the OP, is what do you hope to achieve by demanding that Mel speaks? If things are OK, he'll say that things are good. If things are terrible, he'll say things are good. It's a complete waste of time.

[Archied]

12 hours ago, therams69 said:

Nothing personal Curtains and apologies if I over stepped the mark in my reply. I just feel far to many are actually believing that everything is going to be alright and then before you know it..... Its all too late. We need to wake up and smell the coffee. 

You may not want reassurance, but I do and until I feel I get that I will continue because I am concerned about the future of Derby County Football Club. Do not see that as me having the devine right to this, we all should be wanting it. 

Please do not think that much of what I say is just my opinion. These are facts.

At a loss as to what you think you can achieve , if the owner was hanging on to the club for grim death whilst milking money into his own pockets then fair doos let’s open people’s eyes , let’s all get up in arms together and try to drive him out , but the bloke wants out as fast as he can already??‍♂️, you want words from him saying all will be ok ? ? ,,, pointless pointless pointless,,, means nothing ,it’s actions that matter and we will only see that as things unfold ,,, you accuse fans of having their heads in the sand ?????, I suggest you are the one with head in the sand believing you have the slightest ,power ,influence,say,in what’s happening and will happen between the club and its owner who’s in for multi millions

[24Charlie]

I seriously hate this thread.

[Archied]

11 hours ago, therams69 said:

Because I am not that stupid to do so.

With this forum, generally most people know who I am and what I look like. I am not your standard anon poster lets be honest. Wish I was at times...

I have posted on here for years. People know I know stuff. Trust element. By all means if you think I have an alternative agenda, thats fine, but really I dont. 

So how can I assess what I feel about something your not prepared to tell me ??‍♂️,,, isn’t what your doing / expecting , exactly what you accuse Morris and the top brass of ??‍♂️

[Mihangel]

11 hours ago, Yani P said:

So...you wont disclose what you know whilst expecting the club to disclose what they know to you? Interesting ....

Precisely. Saved me writing it myself.

[Ken Tram]

19 hours ago, bcnram said:

Sometimes it is better to say nothing than feed platitudes because a small self-appointed group think they should. 

But uncertainty is stressful. Just saying something might help.

Compare waiting 29-minutes on-hold with a call-centre:

(1) "Your call is important to us, but we are facing unexpectedly high (really?) call volumes";

(2) "You are currently number 3 in queue" [having been 10th].

Option (2) is far less stressful.

--------------

Fans may not be entitled to information - but fans should be treated well - and if stress can be reduced in this stressful world, then it should.

So, the club could say:

(1) routine steps are making progress;

(2) some issues have arisen, making things progress more slowly / stall;

(3) the situation is sensitive, and we cannot comment further;

(4) we are sorry that we cannot give further details at the moment;

(5) we cannot give further details because both sides are negotiating;

(6) SILENCE (imagine the worst - it could even be worse than that - and we don't care about you - the fans are just noisy yapping nobodies who provide a revenue stream)

(7) SILENCE (the fans will understand - we're busting a gut to do everything - and don't have a spare moment to read multiple comments or provide platitudinous updates)

(8) SILENCE (so much rests on the result of one football match - we are too stressed - give us a break)

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Ken Tram said:

Fans may not be entitled to information - but fans should be treated well - and if stress can be reduced in this stressful world, then it should.

So, the club could say: ...

? TBH absolutely anything. 

Keeping the fans 'in the loop' is tricky in these situations, but saying nothing at all ... meh

[Angry Ram]

My take. If almost anyone else would have put their name to the OP, I would have shrugged my shoulders and moved on. I know Nick, not well just nodding really at games and have always admired the time and effort he has put into a club he clearly loves. We have both been in the 200 at Cardiff or Ipswich on a cold Tuesday. Not that makes anyone a super fan or anything and I know he has already batted those comments away. Those comments would have hurt him I’m sure. 
However he has posted it and I do give it credence because it was from him and what does he get from just stirring? That’s not him. We all know he has contacts in the club and will be a lot more ITK than I will ever be. 
I’ve had concerns about the club but only from what I see. This post has reaffirmed those fears. Some will poo poo, that’s fine but at least look beyond a post on a forum. Smoke and fire?  
??

Edited May 8, 2021 by Angry Ram

[Tamworthram]

13 minutes ago, Ken Tram said:

But uncertainty is stressful. Just saying something might help.

Compare waiting 29-minutes on-hold with a call-centre:

(1) "Your call is important to us, but we are facing unexpectedly high (really?) call volumes";

(2) "You are currently number 3 in queue" [having been 10th].

Option (2) is far less stressful.

--------------

Fans may not be entitled to information - but fans should be treated well - and if stress can be reduced in this stressful world, then it should.

So, the club could say:

(1) routine steps are making progress;

(2) some issues have arisen, making things progress more slowly / stall;

(3) the situation is sensitive, and we cannot comment further;

(4) we are sorry that we cannot give further details at the moment;

(5) we cannot give further details because both sides are negotiating;

(6) SILENCE (imagine the worst - it could even be worse than that - and we don't care about you - the fans are just noisy yapping nobodies who provide a revenue stream)

(7) SILENCE (the fans will understand - we're busting a gut to do everything - and don't have a spare moment to read multiple comments or provide platitudinous updates)

(8) SILENCE (so much rests on the result of one football match - we are too stressed - give us a break)

Didn’t the club say right at the outset that there would be no further comment until the matter was concluded (or words to that effect) which probably covers options 1,2,3 and 4.

Perhaps there is another option if they wanted to be really rude:

”FFS, we said they’re be no further comment. Which part of that don’t you understand?”?

[IslandExile]

23 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

My take. If almost anyone else would have put their name to the OP, I would have shrugged my shoulders and moved on. I know Nick, not well just nodding really at games and have always admired the time and effort he has put into a club he clearly loves. We have both been in the 200 at Cardiff or Ipswich on a cold Tuesday. Not that makes anyone a super fan or anything and I know he has already batted those comments away. Those comments would have hurt him I’m sure. 
However he has posted it and I do give it credence because it was from him and what does he get from just stirring? That’s not him. We all know he has contacts in the club and will be a lot more ITK than I will ever be. 
I’ve had concerns about the club but only from what I see. This post has reaffirmed those fears. Some will poo poo, that’s fine but at least look beyond a post on a forum. Smoke and fire?  
??

That's all fine and it's good that you support your friend. However, he hasn't actually said anything - or told us anything - that others haven't already speculated or read in newspaper articles.

So, there's nothing new.

Surely, neither you or the OP can expect us all to get in a frenzy about something when we're not being told what it is - just that we should be very afraid.

[Ken Tram]

14 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Didn’t the club say right at the outset that there would be no further comment until the matter was concluded (or words to that effect) which probably covers options to1,2,3 and 4.

Perhaps there is another option if they wanted to be really rude:

”FFS, we said they’re be no further comment. Which part of that don’t you understand?”?

I don't know, but if they did, then that sounds like:

"Fans are not important to us, and we can't be arsed (bovvered)."

And, consequently, people will moan.

(Maybe ... we should be kind to the "worriers" or "moaners", and if they are annoying, instead of adminishing fellow fans, we should ask the club to say something that doesn't give the impression that it's fine to let fans get worried!

Unless ... of course ... we are not really fans ... but merely customers! (And maybe that is the point ... maybe we are supposed to stop loving the club ... and just pay cash for entertainment.)