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Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)


therams69

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21 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

HMRC don't usually pull any punches. There are some differences between the various bits - by reputation, the vat people are especially fierce and certainly used to have powers to enter and seize assets. 

Sorry just getting a picture in my head of the team being parcelled up ready to be sold at auction.

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51 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'll have to take a look at the accounts when I get chance, but from memory I think it was circa £150m, which represented £50m purchase price and £100m pumped into the club since.

The initial purchase price was £75m.

Made up of £15m investments, in return for 20% equity, which were supposed to be spread over 5 years.

This replaced the money GSE would invest, as they didn't want to spend another dime.

This would have been at the start of Mac 1's second season.

3 months after the initial investment, GSE asked Mel to bring forward the next payment, and before the season was done the entire deal was bought forward and Mel took sole ownership.

Alongside the above investment, Mel pumped extra money in to improve and upgrade the Moor Farm facility, in the knowledge he'd one day own the lot.

The above suggests GSE walked away without taking a penny profit, does that seem right to you?

 

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27 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

HMRC don't usually pull any punches. There are some differences between the various bits - by reputation, the vat people are especially fierce and certainly used to have powers to enter and seize assets. 

I think they all have similar powers and attitude since the merger between Customs and Inland Revenue.  The worst bits of each survived! The teams handling tax avoidance scheme enquiries are generally particularly unpleasant in how they work. I have no idea but think we must have some sort of payment agreement with HMRC that somehow we have stuck to or they would be being more aggressive. But perhaps they are and this is another thing we dont know

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1 minute ago, I know nuffin said:

They sold season tickets last year and fans left the money there for this season but vat is charged when the money is spent not used. However neither income tax, NI insurance, VAT , corporation tax would come to 20 odd million 

That’s what I mean. We must have defaulted for two or three seasons which I reckon action would have been taken by now.

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4 minutes ago, Gritstone Ram said:

That’s what I mean. We must have defaulted for two or three seasons which I reckon action would have been taken by now.

Just looked it up and income tax on 150,000 a year is 45%. Read somewhere wages were 45 million a year so income tax along could be about 20 million

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11 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

Just looked it up and income tax on 150,000 a year is 45%. Read somewhere wages were 45 million a year so income tax along could be about 20 million

About 3 years ago. Surely that would be sorted. I suppose someone will find out. I suspect it’s Bull poo and it may be our total liabilities are c.£26m.

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1 hour ago, atherstoneram said:

Sorry just getting a picture in my head of the team being parcelled up ready to be sold at auction.

I had it as

"Leg of Lawrence, 48 pence per pound!"

"Bird hock, 65 pence per pound"

"Stretton fillets, 8oz, £4.50 each"

"Kazim burgers - two for a pound!"

"Minced rosenoir - £3 for 1/2 IB"

"Rooney giblets - free to good dogs"

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18 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Once again factually incorrect.

As at 30 June 2018, all funds MM had put into the club were via equity not debt.

That’s what I said, you can gift money to the club. But Mel seems to have borrowed most of the money from MSD 

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25 minutes ago, DCFC27 said:

That’s what I said, you can gift money to the club. But Mel seems to have borrowed most of the money from MSD 

I'm not sure MM has borrowed anything off MSD.

Our parent company appears to have taken loans secured against the stadium and training ground and, I am assuming, has then put that money into the club. Whether that has been introduced as debt or equity in the club I have no idea.

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23 hours ago, IslandExile said:

You were not slated.

You were simply asked what any of us could do that would affect anything. You repeatedly refused to answer that - probably because the truth is there was nothing we could do to alter the course of the club.

Let's be honest, I was.

I said for us to collectively get together and put some pressure on for answers which transpired a couple of months later after dialogue with other groups. Only 1 group from the supporters charter wished to not put their name to that, this forum. Personally felt that was a mistake but I guess means nothing now does it. We didn't do enough and you cannot say nothing could have been done to alter the course of the club, we will never know that. However, head in sands like many that replied to this thread didn't help did it.

 

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23 minutes ago, therams69 said:

Let's be honest, I was.

I said for us to collectively get together and put some pressure on for answers which transpired a couple of months later after dialogue with other groups. Only 1 group from the supporters charter wished to not put their name to that, this forum. Personally felt that was a mistake but I guess means nothing now does it. We didn't do enough and you cannot say nothing could have been done to alter the course of the club, we will never know that. However, head in sands like many that replied to this thread didn't help did it.

 

Yeah, immaterial now and no need for a distracting argument but a couple of things, well four.

1. I was being honest.

2. This is a forum with a wide spectrum of views, not a lobby group. We all supported @David's stance on the letter.

3. No one had their head in the sand. To insinuate that is elitist and insulting. Just because people did not agree with you is not justification for you resorting to such accusations.

4. The letter, the NDA covered meeting and any other action you wanted, but didn't name, have - nor would have - had no impact on the outcome.

Edited to add one more point: it's interesting to see that you have resurfaced now. It's almost like you're back to gloat.

Edited by IslandExile
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23 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm not sure MM has borrowed anything off MSD.

Our parent company appears to have taken loans secured against the stadium and training ground and, I am assuming, has then put that money into the club. Whether that has been introduced as debt or equity in the club I have no idea.

Mel has given MSD a personal guarantee on their loans, so as long as he keeps making payments he effectively has a massive say in the future direction of the club, so this is why Barclays were taken out as joint  charge holders on the stadium last Tuesday, Mel has the Poker equivalent of a pair of aces in the game of finding new owners.

 

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16 minutes ago, therams69 said:

Let's be honest, I was.

I said for us to collectively get together and put some pressure on for answers which transpired a couple of months later after dialogue with other groups. Only 1 group from the supporters charter wished to not put their name to that, this forum. Personally felt that was a mistake but I guess means nothing now does it. We didn't do enough and you cannot say nothing could have been done to alter the course of the club, we will never know that. However, head in sands like many that replied to this thread didn't help did it.

And I stand by that decision, this forum is a platform for fans opinions which we see a wide range of, my voice holds no more weight than any other member on this forum.

I would not and will not put my or the forums name on any letter without discussing it first with members, which there was no time for on that occasion.

I accept you see things differently, however that's where I am on this and made no secret about it, explaining my reasoning at the time the letter was published.

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9 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Mel has given MSD a personal guarantee on their loans, so as long as he keeps making payments he effectively has a massive say in the future direction of the club, so this is why Barclays were taken out as joint  charge holders on the stadium last Tuesday, Mel has the Poker equivalent of a pair of aces in the game of finding new owners.

How so? If he has a stadium he can't use it for anything but football.

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1 minute ago, IslandExile said:

Yeah, immaterial now and no need for a distracting argument but a couple of things, well four.

1. I was being honest.

2. This is a forum with a wide spectrum of views, not a lobby group. We all supported @David's stance on the letter.

3. No one had their head in the sand. To insinuate that is elitist and insulting. Just because people did not agree with you is not justification for you resorting to such accusations.

4. The letter, the NDA covered meeting and any other action you wanted, but didn't name, have - nor would have had - no impact on the outcome.

As you said, no need for a distracting argument so I am not even going to bother in replying to your points.

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