Miggins Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 It's hard for me to understand how we could have amassed so much debt and how it wasn't picked up by regulators at the end of each financial year. How many other businesses could have carried on in this way for so long? I understand Mel's point on Saturday about COVID affecting each team disproportionately depending on parachute payments, size of club etc. and I think Derby was one of those clubs that was disproportionately affected. However I think that the main reason that we were also hit especially hard was because we already had huge impending debts and entered the pandemic with those debts hanging over us and with no money in the contingency fund. How on earth was Mel allowed to get us into this position? Did we not have top accountants at the club who could have stepped in to safeguard the future of the club? I wish HMRC had been as diligent with DCFC as it is with the rest of us! Yours in exasperation... angieram, Kathcairns, jono and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucksRam Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Raich Carter said: Apart from Curtis Davies in background near centre and Tom Lawrence far right. </pendantry> And the steaming pile of poo Mel appears to be leaving on the pitch ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Tombo said: Erm...like the sentiment but do you mean the season we were Champions of England? Imagine a Derby born fan being responsible for the club going into administration in the year the club should be celebrating it’s golden anniversary of being Champions of England for the first time. I never thought I’d see the day. Hope Morris is proud of himself. ☹️ Derby4Me, cosmic, Gisby and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Miggins said: It's hard for me to understand how we could have amassed so much debt and how it wasn't picked up by regulators at the end of each financial year. How many other businesses could have carried on in this way for so long? I understand Mel's point on Saturday about COVID affecting each team disproportionately depending on parachute payments, size of club etc. and I think Derby was one of those clubs that was disproportionately affected. However I think that the main reason that we were also hit especially hard was because we already had huge impending debts and entered the pandemic with those debts hanging over us and with no money in the contingency fund. How on earth was Mel allowed to get us into this position? Did we not have top accountants at the club who could have stepped in to safeguard the future of the club? I wish HMRC had been as diligent with DCFC as it is with the rest of us! Yours in exasperation... Well, seeing as we didn't publish our accounts.... atherstoneram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 29 minutes ago, rammieib said: Why do people think Gellaw 202 haven't paid for the stadium? If they hadn't paid, then the club would be due a lot of money which would clear all the debts. If they have paid, then did Gellaw 202 take a loan out from MSD to pay into Gellaw 202 to buy the stadium? It's all rather confusing. p.s I'm trying to remember if Mel's company was called Gellaw 202 - its completely form memory! Gellaw 202 have filed their June 2020 accounts which show an amount of circa £80m owed to a group company.s Putting 2 and 2 together.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramboy63 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 59 minutes ago, brady1993 said: It's a worry for sure but the two things I'd say to that are. You can make the argument that we've got several players with personal attachment to the club having come throught he academy and/or model pros (i.e. Davies) that might be willing to weather the storm for a little bit. There is an incentive for all players to keep playing till January to secure a better contract elsewhere. Pretty much what i was saying in a roundabout way,Curtis Davies is a Derby legend and i can see him becoming our manager one day as well, as for the players if wages do become an issue even if they have come through our academy you will not see them for dust once clubs come a knocking in January atherstoneram and David Graham Brown 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gisby Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tombo said: Erm...like the sentiment but do you mean the season we were Champions of England? TBH not really sure, could have been the season before or the season after. I would have been 6 or 7 at the time so forgive me for not being 100% certain. The point I was trying to make was regardless of whether we were winning the league or Cloughie & Longston were at each other’s throats at that age you are unaware of the politics or the highs & lows in the great scheme of things. The one-off occasion & the event are what captivates you. Tombo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Well, seeing as we didn't publish our accounts.... Just remind me what Pearce was picking a salary up for ? Shouldn’t he have been bringing stuff to Morris’s attention ? He should be the first out the door that %@&#. But poo rolls downhill doesn’t it ? It’ll be the low earners that go before him. ? Edited September 22, 2021 by Pearl Ram San Fran Van Rams, Kathcairns, SaffyRam and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggins Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Well, seeing as we didn't publish our accounts.... Not publishing our accounts on time should have alerted someone who presumably oversees our accounts and should have been investigated. Or does no one oversee our accounts? I know jack all about the business world but surely when accounts are overdue there should surely be someone to investigate. I'm sure the rest of us would be subject to this rule. Are we not legally obliged to publish our accounts each year? Ramarena, RadioactiveWaste and atherstoneram 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half Fan Half Biscuit Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 So administrators appointed and the Dell charge crystallises on all the assets of the various group companies including bank accounts. Where are administrators going to get £1.5m or however much it is to pay wages between now and next Thursday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Half Fan Half Biscuit said: So administrators appointed and the Dell charge crystallises on all the assets of the various group companies including bank accounts. Where are administrators going to get £1.5m or however much it is to pay wages between now and next Thursday? Mel when he pays for the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsene Titman Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Yani P said: I've put a thread up to check our glorious run to safety..all a but muddy until we get a final score for deductions..I was thinking 16 will be the minimum based on Mels comments..that means without the deduction we will need a maximum of 67 to be safe..so 51 net...that is achievable if we get taken over before we lose our manager and players.. Why are you thinking 16 points discussion based on Mel’s comments? Exactly which comments led you to think 16 points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, Pearl Ram said: Just remind me what Pearce was picking a salary up for ? Shouldn’t he have been bringing stuff to Morris’s attention ? He should be the first out the door that %@&#. But poo rolls downhill doesn’t it ? It’ll be the low earners that go before him. ? Well I'd have thought he'd be the one suggesting that changing 'accounting practices' might be a good wheeze? Pearl Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 Apologies if this has been asked already. Perhaps @Van der MoodHoover can help me with this one. One thing I don't understand is the purpose of bringing in administrators. If the administrators are just going to come in, make people redundant, sell our assets and pay off the creditors, what's stopping Mel doing that himself without triggering the legal process and being deducted 12 points? Not an attack on him (though I've got plenty of ammunition). Just genuinely interested. ariotofmyown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 Why doesn't Mel dip into his £300m+ fortune, settle the debts, guarantee people their jobs, keep the club afloat and sell for a bargain price? He's not exactly going to end up homeless. ariotofmyown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said: How ridiculous does this look now? He knew full well the amount of risk he was putting the club in at this moment. looks like he's having a ?. Edited September 22, 2021 by Chris_Martin . DCFC Kicks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 28 minutes ago, Miggins said: It's hard for me to understand how we could have amassed so much debt and how it wasn't picked up by regulators at the end of each financial year. How many other businesses could have carried on in this way for so long? I wish HMRC had been as diligent with DCFC as it is with the rest of us! Yours in exasperation... Football is not a corner shop business, Neither is it a small engineering company, Most towns will have just the one football club, With corner shops and engineering there are more than enough to serve the community. Community is why football is treated so differently to most other businesses, I've been made aware that if a football club has wracked up as much PAYE as has been stated, Then HMRC would have been aware, They would have been incontact with DCFC to see why PAYE payments taken from players wages were not paid to HMRC, This is NOT a fraud case, This is miss management of funds where it looks as tho the money that should have gone to the Tax Man went on football. Miggins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Apologies if this has been asked already. Perhaps @Van der MoodHoover can help me with this one. One thing I don't understand is the purpose of bringing in administrators. If the administrators are just going to come in, make people redundant, sell our assets and pay off the creditors, what's stopping Mel doing that himself without triggering the legal process and being deducted 12 points? Not an attack on him (though I've got plenty of ammunition). Just genuinely interested. Under the companies act, the creditors can petition the company for repayment of their debt through a legal process and if the company (Derby County fc limited) can't repay, then its immediate insolvency and liquidation. Appointing administrators puts a legal stop on that process and takes control out of the hands of the directors, but it does increase costs overall as you say. It's not just about slashing costs tho...there might be amounts owed to dcfc that the administrators an pursue. And they can also negotiate with creditors (and are more skilled at doing so). It'll be interesting to see if they go after Mel for outstanding stadium payments..... ? DarkFruitsRam7, r_wilcockson, EtoileSportiveDeDerby and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimmerman Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said: Football is not a corner shop business, Neither is it a small engineering company, Most towns will have just the one football club, With corner shops and engineering there are more than enough to serve the community. Community is why football is treated so differently to most other businesses, I've been made aware that if a football club has wracked up as much PAYE as has been stated, Then HMRC would have been aware, They would have been incontact with DCFC to see why PAYE payments taken from players wages were not paid to HMRC, This is NOT a fraud case, This is miss management of funds where it looks as tho the money that should have gone to the Tax Man went on football. So out of interest, common man who doesn't pay taxes ends up eventually with convictions and potential jail time. As the owner of a business that has racked up 26 million in unpaid tax over numerous years,may this be what he's facing and why he's dumped the club into admin? Just a thought.. Miggins, ariotofmyown and David Graham Brown 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: It'll be interesting to see if they go after Mel for outstanding stadium payments..... ? ? That will be a given? Although I thought I read that the admins company have 'links'(?) to MSD? Edited September 22, 2021 by RoyMac5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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