Mental health of the most vulnerable fans ... if Derby are relegated

[Nuwtfly]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

I wrote my comment because I think posters need to recognise that not everyone has the same capacity as them. 

I think that the general tone of the Forum recently is greatly influenced by a few posters who are not only aware of their effect on others but take a certain delight in doing so. If I had my way, I would have removed them long ago but we have to tolerate all opinions. I have made a lousy moderator for this reason.

Now if you disagree with my assessment,  that's fine, but I find the forum a depressing place to be in recent months not because of the football but because of certain posters piling in with rhetoric that is not considered or balanced. I know from the circle of people that I speak to face to face, that they are discouraged from posting because of this. Me too. Now some would say that's no great loss and I would agree! 

What I am saying is that if the Forum makes me feel like this, then it must make others likewise. I have spoken privately with people who think the club is going into administration because they have read it on here and that this will be the end of their club for ever. 

They read and are affected by hysteria. That's what I think it is. I don't think it's healthy and I am trying to point that out. Maybe the problem is mine.

Fair enough and well put. I don't disagree with anything you've said and, for what it's worth, I think it would be a very great loss indeed if you were not posting on here.

I know what you mean about the forum feeling quite depressing. I have felt this, too, though likely for different reasons. A good friend of mine has vanished off here entirely. I think a combination of the pandemic and the way it's been going for us on and off the pitch, I would say since the Joiners Arms debacle, has steadily led to this.

However, I also think, for whatever reason, disagreements seem to be much more heightened on here in recent times. I felt this in a big way back in December for the first time from some posters, some more renown than others. However, I personally think this is just a reflection of us all struggling to deal with what's going on at the club, though, in our own ways. The club isn't in a good place at the moment, so perhaps it's no surprise that the fanbase isn't.

There probably needs to be something of a "coming back together" over the summer. The first thing I would do, for example, is take the "Wayne Rooney" out of the DCFC Fans and set down a general rule of thumb that we don't try and turn this forum into a personality cult for one person anymore, and not for any manager in the future. We should just be DCFC fans. Not Lampard's Fans, Cocu's Fans, Rooney's Fans. 

 

[Ken Tram]

8 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

Not trying to have a pop here

 

8 hours ago, angieram said:

I wrote my comment because

I think that you both made good points. I didn't dare "like" either point in case it looked like I was taking sides on such a sensitive topic.

In my opinion, both posts came from a good place.

And both posts touch upon how both readers and posters may be in a place of need - whether or not it is visible to others.

[Ken Tram]

I am sorry that the thread intruded upon the football section of the forum.

It was prompted by reading posts on the football section (!), where members seemed to be trying to soften the blow should relegation happen. 

And then I worried about fans who are isolated, and don't have the forum as an outlet.

And I thought that if there was some consensus from forum members - which there seemed to be - then I thought that the forum administrators might pass on the idea to the club's communication team, about finding a way to reach out to the most vulnerable fans should we be relegated.

[angieram]

3 minutes ago, Ken Tram said:

I am sorry that the thread intruded upon the football section of the forum.

It was prompted by reading posts on the football section (!), where members seemed to be trying to soften the blow should relegation happen. 

And then I worried about fans who are isolated, and don't have the forum as an outlet.

And I thought that if there was some consensus from forum members - which there seemed to be - then I thought that the forum administrators might pass on the idea to the club's communication team, about finding a way to reach out to the most vulnerable fans should we be relegated.

Don't apologise, it is very relevant at the current time. 

[Ken Tram]

And, then the thread took an unexpected turn.

But, how could we not react?

And, perhaps it is in such unexpected moments - when talking about football - that people share things that are normally kept private - but which have the potential to help and inform others. 

And, then, in my own case, I was surprised by the response. It was kind and humbling. Thank you! How supportive have members been! 

And what I also liked, was seeing a positive reaction to terrible heartbreak - and it being expressed in terms of victory on Saturday!

The power of the Ram! May it carry us across the line on Saturday! 

? COYR

[Rab a dab doo]

Win or lose maybe the forum regulators could help set up self help groups for us contributors .

This would help us fans recover from the trauma of this season and trials and tribulations which yet to come off the pitch.  

[Leeds Ram]

On 06/05/2021 at 10:03, angieram said:

It is interesting that this thread has crossed over into the main football forum because of where we are as a club at the moment. (There has been a similar thread in the pub for a long while.) 

What I would like to say is that while some posters may find it therapeutic  (or even amusing) to whip themselves and others up into a frenzy on here with their collective bed-wetting, that these posts are being read by those same vulnerable people. People who may not be able to interpret the facetious nature of some of those posts and are taking them literally.

It might make some think twice about the effect of their actions.

 

Ironically, a lot of these 'bed wetters' who you deride and judge are probably themselves quite likely to be vulnerable posters.  

[angieram]

1 minute ago, Leeds Ram said:

Ironically, a lot of these 'bed wetters' who you deride and judge are probably themselves quite likely to be vulnerable posters.  

In what way?

I find it very interesting that people use this as an excuse to defend those posters who go out of their way to be negative, rude and aggressive to others. 

People should take responsibility for their actions, and that includes what they type on an internet forum. 

[Leeds Ram]

It's very humbling reading everyone's stories that are obviously very painful and difficult to both live and tell. I've certainly not had these kinds of painful experiences and want to wish everyone well who is struggling now and hope in the future things do get better for those not in a great place. My own small difficulty is looking for a job post PhD (September) in post pandemic world where the things I'd like to be doing don't seem to not be available so I'm scrambling around trying to find something to do once my funding runs out. This however is very small beer compared to some of the events and difficulties that others have expressed very bravely on this thread. 

Hopefully, tomorrow Derby can put a big smile on all our faces and in August we can go watch championship football once again at Pride Park. 

[Eric the half a ram]

On 05/05/2021 at 22:58, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I thought 2020 was a tough year, 2021 has been absolutely mental so far.

5 weeks ago my brother-in-law committed suicide and then last week my wife lost our baby whilst 4 months pregnant and we spent a rough couple of days in hospital having to still give birth. Tough times.

I was at least hopeful Wayne Rooneys Rams would cheer me up slightly on the Saturday, but it wasnt to be.

My escapism has always been the Rams, but at the minute it's like going on holiday to Normanton to get away from it all.

 

 

My wife and I have also suffered numerous miscarriages, it is hard to put into words how you feel at the time! One thing I have noticed in people's responses however, is there appears to be a correlation between how far along the pregnancy was to how much understanding you received! I got many 'oh well at least you didn't know for long!' responses to the early ones! Please remember, they all hurt!! 

[Leeds Ram]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

In what way?

I find it very interesting that people use this as an excuse to defend those posters who go out of their way to be negative, rude and aggressive to others. 

People should take responsibility for their actions, and that includes what they type on an internet forum. 

Not on the rude or aggressive side (although calling people 'bed wetters' is quite rude as well) but people who are perceived as overly negative or seeing the worst scenario can be a result of overthinking and an inability to put things into perspective. It's not uncommon with people who struggle with emotional regulation for them to think in this way. 

I'm not saying people shouldn't take responsibility for their actions merely that the group you assign as being the problem may have issues of their own that you neglected to mention. 

[angieram]

17 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Not on the rude or aggressive side (although calling people 'bed wetters' is quite rude as well) but people who are perceived as overly negative or seeing the worst scenario can be a result of overthinking and an inability to put things into perspective. It's not uncommon with people who struggle with emotional regulation for them to think in this way. 

I'm not saying people shouldn't take responsibility for their actions merely that the group you assign as being the problem may have issues of their own that you neglected to mention.

I have no problem with people being negative about the club at the moment providing they do it in a reasoned manner.

[Leeds Ram]

6 minutes ago, angieram said:

I have no problem with people being negative about the club at the moment providing they do it in a reasoned manner.

Kind of missing the point with your response I think but we can agree to disagree ? 

[RoyMac5]

13 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Kind of missing the point with your response...

?

Everyone that is committed to DCFC must find dealing with their current status difficult.

[BucksRam]

Great thread and one that's incredibly valid.  We're all aware of the fact things happen to others but only generally focus on what happens to us. It's very humbling to read what others have gone, or are going through. My thoughts are with everyone here dealing with horrible events, having gone through a hugely stressful 2020 personally (wife and I contracting COVID then wife having a mastectomy for breast cancer, now all clear fortunately) and for other reasons this year hasn't been brilliant so far. As I've said before on another thread, this forum has been great for me personally in helping to act as an escape from some of the poo we have to deal with in real life.  At times though, even the forum has been a hard read due to negativity and borderline spite at times, but that's comes of an open forum, full of very passionate fans but all with very different approaches to life and respective communication styles. I've had to accept at times communication by word is sometimes hard to do and is often miss-construed rather than take personal offence at something. Not always easy!

On a personal level, much as I love DCFC, yes I'll be gutted if we get relegated, but will soon move on and "look forward" to next season's games, albeit with less glamorous clubs. It won't detrimentally impact my longer term well-being to that effect.  For some here however, that may well not be the case hence why it's a great post by @Ken Tram.  As a long distance supporter I don't have the closer interaction a lot of you on here do, and I'm sure many of you know the more vulnerable people here, including those who wear a huge heart on their sleeves.  For me, Derby is part of my life, but I know for some, Derby IS their life.  

If you do know of people who are likely to be impacted, it's important to provide support, but that those individuals know too that people are here to support, to act as a sounding board, a shoulder to cry on or indeed help get you professional support where needed.

We all have different lives, different opinions, some of us are blunt and to the point, some read and re-read their posts before publishing to make sure there's nothing in there to offend (yep, that's me) but one thing we all share is a love for this club so keep the love all and lend an ear, arm or shoulder whenever you can. 

[Anna]

Important post, thank you Ken for bringing it to the forefront of people's minds.

Agree that it is an exceptional, tough time in the world right now and this could be an additional stressor to those. To anyone who needs support, to get things off their chest extra - there is help out there, please seek it if you need it.

Lastly, I have seen some cry/laugh emojis on some of these posts that I think are completely inappropriate - I think you should reconsider the impact of these before you post ?

[bimmerman]

On 05/05/2021 at 22:58, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I thought 2020 was a tough year, 2021 has been absolutely mental so far.

5 weeks ago my brother-in-law committed suicide and then last week my wife lost our baby whilst 4 months pregnant and we spent a rough couple of days in hospital having to still give birth. Tough times.

I was at least hopeful Wayne Rooneys Rams would cheer me up slightly on the Saturday, but it wasnt to be.

My escapism has always been the Rams, but at the minute it's like going on holiday to Normanton to get away from it all.

 

 

Sorry to hear this fella. Win,lose or draw some things are more important then football, suffered with depression severely after our second miscarriage (on our wedding day!)

[GboroRam]

48 minutes ago, Anna said:

Important post, thank you Ken for bringing it to the forefront of people's minds.

Agree that it is an exceptional, tough time in the world right now and this could be an additional stressor to those. To anyone who needs support, to get things off their chest extra - there is help out there, please seek it if you need it.

Lastly, I have seen some cry/laugh emojis on some of these posts that I think are completely inappropriate - I think you should reconsider the impact of these before you post ?

I think the one that I saw was done in error. 

[Ramslad1992]

On 05/05/2021 at 22:58, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I thought 2020 was a tough year, 2021 has been absolutely mental so far.

5 weeks ago my brother-in-law committed suicide and then last week my wife lost our baby whilst 4 months pregnant and we spent a rough couple of days in hospital having to still give birth. Tough times.

I was at least hopeful Wayne Rooneys Rams would cheer me up slightly on the Saturday, but it wasnt to be.

My escapism has always been the Rams, but at the minute it's like going on holiday to Normanton to get away from it all.

 

 

So sorry to hear this mate. Me and the wife have been through hell and back this last year with our girl but we have still had it easier than you and yours.

I’ll raise a drink to you all. Keep strong ?

[LeedsCityRam]

On 05/05/2021 at 22:48, Ken Tram said:

Despite the eccentricities of some on the forum, and massively passionate emotions - and despite knowing how terribly upset so many of us will be if we get relegated - we are lucky to be able to have this forum to get the stresses off our chests. 

But I have just realised that with relegation being a real possibility - and with lockdown associated isolation, reducing the resilience of many - that for a few Derby County fans, they may be at much greater risk than would be usual when a team gets relegated.

Derby County goes to the core of some, and for anyone more vulnerable than they might normally be in normal times, the risks may be higher for those few. (There will be some left feeling bereft by relegation - with this being on top of other problems - and with relegation pushing them over the edge - maybe.)

Maybe the club might want to arrange counselling for the worse affected fans! Or something!

Truly, maybe the club could subscribe to a helpline service for a few weeks - and advertise the number somehow - even during the match - in case of relegation!

This is not a normal season, when the gut wrenching moment of relegation would be shared with thousands of others. For some, it will be felt alone. And for some, it will be on top of having vastly reduced resilience.

It is a good job that we have this forum - for us lot to get Derby related stress off our chests! But, there'll be some isolated fans out there with no release!

I know that I spout nonsense sometimes - and have terrible attempts at humour - but I don't think we should laugh about this.

I might be worrying too much - but if others agree - and there is sufficient consensus - maybe David could pass on any such consensus to the club.

I don't think that I am being unrealistic or over dramatic ...

We fans all go through highs and lows - from minute to minute in games - match to match - season to season. That's part of being a fan. 

I just wonder if lockdown might make it dangerously worse for a few fans out there? I doubt that it will include people on the forum.

Maybe others can see the risks more clearly, or have good ideas about how best to reach out to anyone that might be at risk of we get relegated.

(Basically, I have noticed how forum members are seemingly protecting themselves mentally - preparing themselves for the emotional roller coaster that would come from relegation. Many say that relegation is inevitable. They will be delighted to be proved wrong. But, they will cope with relegation better if it happens, I think. But, if so many forum members are doing things like this ... it made me realise that there will be some, out there, in a far more vulnerable state after a year of isolation - and I suddenly worried about how they will cope if we should be relegated.)

(We are less likely to be relegated than the other two teams - but there is a significant chance that it will happen.)

Really humbling reading some of these posts. If there's one good thing to come out of this lousy season, its the community on here within which people can share painful experiences. All my best wishes to those who have posted ?

@Ken Tram great opening post & totally understand the thinking. To those who are worrying about relegation & understandably so, please bear in mind the following;

• Man City were in League One in 1999 - their hated rivals had just won the Treble, basically their lowest ever point. 12 years later they won the League title & they play in the Champions League final in 3 weeks time
• Leeds were relegated to League One in 2007 & it took them 3 years to get out. They're now eyeing a Champions League charge next season
• Leicester were relegated to League One in 2008 - 8 years later they won the League title & are back in the Champions League spots again
• Sheffield Utd were relegated to League One in 2011 & spent 6 years there - once they got out, it took them 3 years to finish top half of the Premiership
• Our very own Derby County nearly went out of business in 1984 & were relegated to the old Third Division that same year - 5 years later, we finished 5th in the old Division One, beat the Champions Arsenal & would have got a UEFA Cup spot had it not been for the scousers

You can also add Wolves, Southampton & Norwich to the list above. Human spirit is an amazing thing & there's a hell of a lot of it backing this football club - whatever happens tomorrow, please don't get too down & keep the faith because the good times will return. COYR ?

Edited May 7, 2021 by LeedsCityRam