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5 hours ago, Josh said:

Also why do people list Leeds as a big club? And by big I mean listing them with the Villas and Evertons. They've only won one more league title than Derby. I don't be buy the whole 'support' they are a city of 700+k. Wasn't long ago they were getting 17k at home.

They’re a big club. Up there with Everton and Villa surely. When did they last get 17k on average at home? Doesn’t matter whether they are one city team or not, they’re well supported which for me is the most obvious way to describe big club. Winning trophies isn’t as good an indicator. 

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55 minutes ago, Patrick Rams said:

Thank you Josh regarding Leeds! They are continuously stated to be a 'Big club'.Yet only 4 or five seasons ago before the bit of an upturn in their fortunes our average attandence was over 29,000...'Big club's Leeds were averaging 21,000.Our LOWEST crowd was 26,000 whilst Leeds were sometimes down to 16-17,000.And Leeds as a city is more than 3 times bigger than Derby.As the biggest one club city in the country Leeds are a terribly supported team.Its about time this myth of them being a massive club is kicked into touch.

Have to disagree with this, they have twice averaged over 30,000 in championship! Tier 2 football getting this level of support indicates a club being well supported. Averages over the whole season over time tell a good story 

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37 minutes ago, GenBr said:

We're Derby County. We aren't Derby City. Comparing city sizes is completely irrelevant to size of support when most of our support doesn't live in the city and I would also suggest Leeds are the same. Leeds have fans all over Yorkshire and whilst they might be the only team in Leeds they have a lot of other rival clubs in very close proximity. They have more fans than us - nothing to be ashamed of, but they've got a bigger population - simple as that. 

If we drop into League 1 or we have a few seasons with the same tripe as we are watching now or we have a Fawaz type owner you will soon change your tune regarding Leeds low number of fans in the ground in recent years. We've had relative success for the last few years which has pulled more fans in to the ground, but you can't compare that to a Leeds side that have been terribly run until recently - we can very easily see our numbers in the ground collapse again in the coming years

I wonder if this "fanbase" idea is more important than ever now.

30 years ago, a large fanbase would only contribute financially on the odd visit to a match.

Now this fanbase can pay for streaming audio/video and purchase goods much easier than the rare visit to the club shop.

Would be interesting to see the streams watched this season during lockdown, at least at start of season when everyone had something to play for.

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1 hour ago, Patrick Rams said:

Thank you Josh regarding Leeds! They are continuously stated to be a 'Big club'.Yet only 4 or five seasons ago before the bit of an upturn in their fortunes our average attandence was over 29,000...'Big club's Leeds were averaging 21,000.Our LOWEST crowd was 26,000 whilst Leeds were sometimes down to 16-17,000.And Leeds as a city is more than 3 times bigger than Derby.As the biggest one club city in the country Leeds are a terribly supported team.Its about time this myth of them being a massive club is kicked into touch.

Leeds are basically a proxy for most of Yorkshire (save for Sheffield & its surrounding area) with their identity of resentment at London/south/more fashionable cities & relish for tough characters/aggression being very representative of Yorkshire in general. Hence when you add the city of Leeds to wider Yorkshire, there is a massive potential fanbase.

However they are notoriously fickle - you're right that when Bates was in charge, their attendances plummeted & they were regularly getting gates of 15k/16k the season they got relegated from the Championship  - that would be unthinkable for Derby in the PP era.

Also worth mentioning that even in their heyday of 1965-1975 they often got crowd numbers that Revie openly described as disappointing. I think Leeds have a certain 'Man Utd' vibe about them - a lot of armchair fans, potential for enormous crowds when at their absolute best but often flatter to deceive. Can't fault their away crowds though - very good.

I would personally put Leeds in that bracket below the 'Big Six' along with Newcastle, Villa & Everton.

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2 hours ago, GenBr said:

We're Derby County. We aren't Derby City. Comparing city sizes is completely irrelevant to size of support when most of our support doesn't live in the city and I would also suggest Leeds are the same. Leeds have fans all over Yorkshire and whilst they might be the only team in Leeds they have a lot of other rival clubs in very close proximity. They have more fans than us - nothing to be ashamed of, but they've got a bigger population - simple as that. 

Leeds effectively has two cities with Wakefield right next to them not having a team as well as all of North Yorkshire. Rival clubs in close proximity? South Yorkshire has 4 teams, West Yorkshire is just Leeds and Huddersfield. Derby has a lot of teams around us too. For the size of the area Leeds covers it should have bigger attendances and more fans than Derby. 

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20 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Leeds effectively has two cities with Wakefield right next to them not having a team as well as all of North Yorkshire. Rival clubs in close proximity? South Yorkshire has 4 teams, West Yorkshire is just Leeds and Huddersfield. Derby has a lot of teams around us too. For the size of the area Leeds covers it should have bigger attendances and more fans than Derby. 

Leeds has Bradford and Huddersfield right on its doorstep - Bradford might be in a lower league now, but they still have a massive fanbase and big attendances. Other than a non league side in the north of the county Derby County has no competition at all in our region. Leeds do have more fans than us, more people watch their televised games and in the last couple of years they've been getting more fans through the gates than us.  I don't know why a lot of Derby fans have such a bee in their bonnet about Leeds having a bigger fanbase than us, but arguing about it isn't going to change the reality.

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The size of any club can only be put down to how they (and their sponsors) monetize their fan base and reach. It's absolutely nothing to do with past glories, and even passing glories. 

It's no surprise that Derby have always found themselves on Sky a lot in the Championship because they're one of the few clubs that can generate viewing figures to make money. Leeds, Forest, Wednesday and others too. This is why Mel Morris was always frustrated at the TV money as Derby and Forest would generate a bigger viewership than Burnley, Watford but receive a fraction of the money due to the Premier League umbrella. 

Club size = following. It's as simple as that.

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4 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Leeds has Bradford and Huddersfield right on its doorstep - Bradford might be in a lower league now, but they still have a massive fanbase and big attendances. Other than a non league side in the north of the county Derby County has no competition at all in our region. Leeds do have more fans than us, more people watch their televised games and in the last couple of years they've been getting more fans through the gates than us.  I don't know why a lot of Derby fans have such a bee in their bonnet about Leeds having a bigger fanbase than us, but arguing about it isn't going to change the reality.

Chesterfield are in Derbyshire? But past that we're surrounded, the Sheffield clubs, Nottingham, Leicester, Stoke on another side, if you want to go further afield Birmingham. The idea that Leeds have more clubs around them than Derby just because you're only counting region as the county is pretty laughable. Who's denying whether Leeds have more fans than us? They do. They have 2 cities of 1 million who predominantly support Leeds as well as pretty much the majority of West and North Yorkshire. Of course they do, the catchment area is huge. You misunderstood what I was saying, not that they don't have a bigger fanbase, but it actually should be bigger than what it is due to the size of the area. 

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No way are Forest a bigger club than us or Watford or QPR for that matter 

Why would you think that Watford and QPR are bigger clubs ? if so why did we take nearly 6000 more fans than them to wembley for play off final ? they could'nt even sell all of there allocation and yet are a london club a small one at that 

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7 hours ago, S8TY said:

No way are Forest a bigger club than us or Watford or QPR for that matter 

Why would you think that Watford and QPR are bigger clubs ? if so why did we take nearly 6000 more fans than them to wembley for play off final ? they could'nt even sell all of there allocation and yet are a london club a small one at that 

Same with West Brom giving 3 tickets to all season ticket holders. Sticks in my mind as the same time they were doing that there was a borderline riot at Pride Park when the last few hundred tickets went on general sale on the Saturday evening. 

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On 04/05/2021 at 21:46, Ambitious said:

 

Sunderland and Southampton have been relegated with bigger fan reach too. Not to mention: Leicester, Forest and Wednesday who have all seen the third tier of English football in the last 20 years. All clubs at least on a similar scale to 9

 

Woah now.....leafy Hampshire may have geographic area on its side but it ain't exactly a footie hot-spot. 

That said, when I first moved down here, the Saints fans were fond of referring to the club as "the biggest club south of London" 🤣

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