Morgan Whittaker

[Sparkle]

20 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

I said selling him for 700k is a mistake, or at least, it’s something we shouldn’t be doing if we had any choice. I’m not certain he’ll make it, and I’d be ok with selling him if we got a much bigger fee. But for 700k, given the potential he’s shown at youth level, I think it’s desperately sad we didn’t keep him.

Compared with zero for Butterfield Johnson Anya Thorne it looks like a very good deal 

[Millenniumram]

20 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Compared with zero for Butterfield Johnson Anya Thorne it looks like a very good deal 

You’re comparing terrible recruitment with selling cheap. Very different situations.

[David]

Would be very surprised if we didn’t have a sell on fee in there so it won’t just be 700k, it’s standard practice now.

Right now, as of today, it’s impossible to say if it’s a good deal or not for either side.

He scored a goal v Man City, great, pleased for the lad, that could be the only goal he scores before going out on loan to League 1 and fading away.

Or he could go on and get sold for £20m and give us a tasty slice of that.

Let’s be honest, he wasn’t a young player that’s come in, put in quality performances and been harshly treated by being left out the team.

I doubt you would find any Derby fan that would have had him in our fantasy starting 11.

Pleased for the lad, I’m sure it will be in our interests he does well. 

[Gisby]

2 hours ago, David said:

Would be very surprised if we didn’t have a sell on fee in there so it won’t just be 700k, it’s standard practice now.

Right now, as of today, it’s impossible to say if it’s a good deal or not for either side.

He scored a goal v Man City, great, pleased for the lad, that could be the only goal he scores before going out on loan to League 1 and fading away.

Or he could go on and get sold for £20m and give us a tasty slice of that.

Let’s be honest, he wasn’t a young player that’s come in, put in quality performances and been harshly treated by being left out the team.

I doubt you would find any Derby fan that would have had him in our fantasy starting 11.

Pleased for the lad, I’m sure it will be in our interests he does well. 

Ahhh ... at last the voice of reason!!! All the hand wringing over the price, the potential etc etc what a drama .... none of us know whether he will cut the mustard or not, including those at DCFC or Liverpool FC .... sometimes the club just can’t win with some of us on here .... damned if they do & damned if they don’t ?

Edited February 13, 2021 by Gisby

[rustylee]

It’s hard to value young players Whittaker was probably worth more when he hadn’t actually played for the first team all potential and scoring goals, good performances for the youth and u23 teams his first team appearances for us devalued him.

[RamNut]

We didn’t seem to understand his ability and played him out wide where his lack of pace and trickery made him ordinary.

in the end he was discarded like a used Mason Bennett.

[cheron85]

On 12/02/2021 at 18:20, Millenniumram said:

I don’t buy that he doesn’t fit the system - I think he’s got all the attributes to make it as a striker, and he’s no less suited to playing on the wing than the likes of Waghorn. Regardless, it’s a poor excuse for not getting value for money for him - even if he doesn’t suit our style of play, he’ll suit someone else’s, and we should get a decent fee for him. 700k is not that.

Okay - It's just a difference of opinion but I respect you thought process

I think a couple of managers now have been unable/unwilling to pick him as a starter or really even an impact sub at either striker or winger - And if a team comes in who says they'll offer him more game time it would be churlish of us to stand in his way

As for fee - You get what people are willing to pay - For a lad who's had bit-part action for 18 months when his peers are starting every week I'm not sure teams are gonna be coming in with multi-million pound deals - Compare it to how much we got (reportedly) for Bogle and Lowe who were consistent first team performers

On 13/02/2021 at 10:33, David said:

Pleased for the lad, I’m sure it will be in our interests he does well. 

This is I think is key to a lot of the deals we've been doing - Whittaker, Bogle, Lowe, Delap, Gordon and the lads who've gone off to Man Utd

If young players know they get a good football education at a good academy with good coaches AND we churn out players who have a route to the first team and/or are craved by PL sides (including some at the very top) we have a much better chance of recruiting them - That plus they can see that we don't hold on to players unnecessarily for years like Spurs/Chelsea/Man City do but give them chance to move on when first team football is on offer and we can't give it to them

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

Okay - It's just a difference of opinion but I respect you thought process

I think a couple of managers now have been unable/unwilling to pick him as a starter or really even an impact sub at either striker or winger - And if a team comes in who says they'll offer him more game time it would be churlish of us to stand in his way

As for fee - You get what people are willing to pay - For a lad who's had bit-part action for 18 months when his peers are starting every week I'm not sure teams are gonna be coming in with multi-million pound deals - Compare it to how much we got (reportedly) for Bogle and Lowe who were consistent first team performers

Agree with you in that we weren’t going to use him - so I have no problem with us selling him in principle. Again, it’s just the fee. He’s an England U20 international with a fantastic record at youth level and first team experience. He should be worth much more than 700k, if no one wants to pay, then we should keep him for now (if that were financially possible). Not sure comparing to Bogle/Lowe is much good as we didn’t get enough for them either - we’ve been underselling youth for years.

[cheron85]

59 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Agree with you in that we weren’t going to use him - so I have no problem with us selling him in principle. Again, it’s just the fee. He’s an England U20 international with a fantastic record at youth level and first team experience. He should be worth much more than 700k, if no one wants to pay, then we should keep him for now (if that were financially possible). Not sure comparing to Bogle/Lowe is much good as we didn’t get enough for them either - we’ve been underselling youth for years.

I think to @David's point - We don't know what the actual fee was - £700k is reported but it may well be a structured deal (often is with younger players)

Also not like we've had anyone sniffing around for him, links to anywhere or any stand out performances which would garner attention - That plus very little money being thrown around this window means the fee we were likely to get for him was never likely to be high

I almost always think you need to et fringe players go if they want to go, regardless of the age - If you keep them and they're unhappy their performances will suffer, they won't improve, they might not develop and you end up with a player who's worth less not more - If they were simply an asset then absolutely keep them but the human side of the game is often ignored - We have a manager now who seems to understand that more than any we've had in a while (probably since Macca...)

[Millenniumram]

3 hours ago, cheron85 said:

I think to @David's point - We don't know what the actual fee was - £700k is reported but it may well be a structured deal (often is with younger players)

Also not like we've had anyone sniffing around for him, links to anywhere or any stand out performances which would garner attention - That plus very little money being thrown around this window means the fee we were likely to get for him was never likely to be high

I almost always think you need to et fringe players go if they want to go, regardless of the age - If you keep them and they're unhappy their performances will suffer, they won't improve, they might not develop and you end up with a player who's worth less not more - If they were simply an asset then absolutely keep them but the human side of the game is often ignored - We have a manager now who seems to understand that more than any we've had in a while (probably since Macca...)

John Percy is pretty reliable, and I’d have thought if there were significant add ons / sell on percentage then that would have been reported too. Unfortunately I feel his sale was forced onto us because of the financial mess we find ourselves in following the failed takeover. I don’t think there is any more to it than that, which is a pretty sad situation all round. I’m not sure Rooney would have sold him at that price if he had any choice.

[cheron85]

18 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

John Percy is pretty reliable, and I’d have thought if there were significant add ons / sell on percentage then that would have been reported too. Unfortunately I feel his sale was forced onto us because of the financial mess we find ourselves in following the failed takeover. I don’t think there is any more to it than that, which is a pretty sad situation all round. I’m not sure Rooney would have sold him at that price if he had any choice.

And that's probably fundamentally where we disagree ? Just one person's opinion and all that

I think most deals these days aren't reported or reported full - Percy does seem reliable but I get the feeling he gets his info from someone at the club who might only have given him the up front fee - We're both speculating so who knows

I also think Rooney is a guy who understands getting game time is the most important thing for passionate players and I reckon he's the kind to let someone move on if he's not gonna get game time - Evans seems to show that and had nothing but praise for Rooney's attitude and openness - Again we're both speculating so who knows

Essentially we're both speculating on all of the reasons and motivations and details of the deal - In the situation where I have very little information I just choose to think there are probably things I don't know and never will - Rather than complaining that it's down to bad finances and complaining about it - And I'm hardly know as a ray of sunshine! ?

[David]

On the bench tonight v Forest, wouldn’t say no to a late winner 

[Mostyn6]

Scored today. 

[Zag zig]

30 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Scored today. 

Yeah but any forward can score against the team he was playing against.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

Scored today. 

If only our forwards looked that ordinary and scored. Oh yeah Lawrence did.

[EranioIsGod]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56974460

 

[Carl Sagan]

3 hours ago, EranioIsGod said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56974460

 

For those not clicking the link, the headline is about Morgan Whittaker receiving online racial abuse following the game on Saturday. What is wrong with people? In the unlikely event the lad reads this forum, I hope he knows there are thousands of Rams fans wishing him well having come through the ranks at Derby, and only a handful of morons who are sad keyboard warriors and think it's somehow OK to send racial hate off into the ether. 

[Gaspode]

10 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

For those not clicking the link, the headline is about Morgan Whittaker receiving online racial abuse following the game on Saturday. What is wrong with people? In the unlikely event the lad reads this forum, I hope he knows there are thousands of Rams fans wishing him well having come through the ranks at Derby, and only a handful of morons who are sad keyboard warriors and think it's somehow OK to send racial hate off into the ether. 

Radio Derby suggesting that a proportion of the abuse was from Swansea fans ? - probably didn't like to see him speaking to the Derby players after the game.....There are way too many morons in the world at present....

[Premier ram]

vile behaviour , rise above it Morgan , would like to send you my best wishes and the best of luck in your career , you left the Rams too soon

[MickD]

Once again a Black player is subjected to racial abuse for simply doing his job.

Why should he be abused for scoring against Derby? It's what he is paid for

Hopefully his abuser will be found, charged, and if he/she is a Derby supporter banned from our games for life.

If he subscribes to this forum banned from it also.

?