OohMartWright Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 On 22/04/2021 at 09:08, FindernRam said: 100 weeks after being at Wembley with Mount, who is now captain of a team in the semi-final of the Champions League, Tomori and Wilson, we are staring relegation in the face without them and our record signing! That's failure on a massive scale. Rooney as a player and manager is a significant part of that failure. Not the only guilty party but still significant. Sure he was dealt a bad hand but knew what he was getting into after shadowing Cocu. FTFY "Failure on a massive scale" - I think not. From the position we were in when he was appointed, staying up would have been seen as, and still would be, a success. Steve How Hard? and Yani P 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, OohMartWright said: FTFY "Failure on a massive scale" - I think not. From the position we were in when he was appointed, staying up would have been seen as, and still would be, a success. Yea, consequently I reckon Spurs and Celtic will be sniffing around come season end ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 This is too broad a question. It will be Derby's and Mel morris' failure. But Rooney's success. He took over a team 24th, 6 points adrift. He's got us out of the relegation zone 4 points clear. Yani P, Rammy03, OohMartWright and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 it is neither. Survival in this league is not a success. Survival in this league is not a failure considering where we were when Rooney took over. However, the season as a whole is a massive failure Yani P, DCFC Kicks and Rammy03 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alty_Ram Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 I don't think it can be judged in such black and white terms as staying up = success. We looked to be cruising to safety a few weeks back but so spectacular has been our nosedive that we find ourselves needing snookers. With the body language on show with this team I honestly can't see us winning another game this season. If that is somehow enough due to a flukey run of maths then I don't see how you can call that success. I can't see many managers anywhere in football not having serious questions asked with one win in 15. Good managers will always get the best out of what they have got, even if that is ultimately not enough. We don't just lack belief though (which would be fairly understandable), we lack energy and zip and any feeling that this lot know how to save themselves. Maybe some don't care because they won't be here either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 24 minutes ago, OohMartWright said: FTFY "Failure on a massive scale" - I think not. From the position we were in when he was appointed, staying up would have been seen as, and still would be, a success. I respect your opinion, and I agree there are mitigating circumstances, but the basic facts are still the same. As a club we have failed massively on many levels. Rooney may keep us up by the skin of his teeth, but I see nothing in the team selections, tactics, will to win that indicates he has what it takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OohMartWright Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, FindernRam said: I respect your opinion, and I agree there are mitigating circumstances, but the basic facts are still the same. As a club we have failed massively on many levels. Rooney may keep us up by the skin of his teeth, but I see nothing in the team selections, tactics, will to win that indicates he has what it takes. I don't disagree with any of that, but I would refer you back to the actual question that the OP asked "If we survive relegation fight, will Rooney’s management be deemed as success or failure?" and regardless of the other failings of the club, if we stay up there is absolutely no way that Rooney's management can be defined as "failure on a massive scale". If we don't stay up, that's a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, FindernRam said: I respect your opinion, and I agree there are mitigating circumstances, but the basic facts are still the same. As a club we have failed massively on many levels. Rooney may keep us up by the skin of his teeth, but I see nothing in the team selections, tactics, will to win that indicates he has what it takes. I voted “failure” initially but, with hindsight, would say very moderate success. Here is a comparison of position when he was appointed and results since then: Played. Won. Drawn. Lost points leagues position (based on the games in question) Pre Rooney. 13. 1. 3. 9. 6. 24th Since 30. 10. 7. 13. 37. 15th So, I’m not suggesting we start awarding performance related bonuses or that 15th would be acceptable, given what he inherited (whether that is down to Morris or Cocu) I’m not sure I would consider survival as failure for Rooney. Yani P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Tamworthram said: I voted “failure” initially but, with hindsight, would say very moderate success. Here is a comparison of position when he was appointed and results since then: Played. Won. Drawn. Lost points leagues position (based on the games in question) Pre Rooney. 13. 1. 3. 9. 6. 24th Since 30. 10. 7. 13. 37. 15th So, I’m not suggesting we start awarding performance related bonuses or that 15th would be acceptable, given what he inherited (whether that is down to Morris or Cocu) I’m not sure I would consider survival as failure for Rooney. that 30 games is a tale of two halves though. My count was 1 more loss, 1 less draw but I can't be arsed to check my work, it's close enough. First half P15 W7 D3 L5 Last half P15 W3 D3 L9 It's the decline that's stark IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 4 hours ago, GboroRam said: that 30 games is a tale of two halves though. My count was 1 more loss, 1 less draw but I can't be arsed to check my work, it's close enough. First half P15 W7 D3 L5 Last half P15 W3 D3 L9 It's the decline that's stark IMO. True but, when we’re only talking about five months (rather than something like five years) I think you have to measure on his overall tenure to date otherwise we’d be sacking managers after any short run of poor results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Tamworthram said: True but, when we’re only talking about five months (rather than something like five years) I think you have to measure on his overall tenure to date otherwise we’d be sacking managers after any short run of poor results. But you're comparing to the pre Rooney set of 13 games. Our form is similar to the pre Rooney results (over a similar number of matches) which were deemed bad enough to result in Cocu being shown the door. Nuwtfly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minesahartington Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 On 22/04/2021 at 08:22, Curtains said: I not sure at Derby really . Im being serious. The players don’t listen They don’t listen to the wrong man. He needs to take them with him. Not sure he exudes the confidence needed to build them up and let them go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, minesahartington said: They don’t listen to the wrong man. He needs to take them with him. Not sure he exudes the confidence needed to build them up and let them go I think he is the right man though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 On 22/04/2021 at 08:13, Curtains said: The forum is a circus Nearly made me have another cardiac when I read that mate ? Curtains 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Coneheadjohn said: Nearly made me have another cardiac when I read that mate ? I hope not mate. Coneheadjohn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 On 22/04/2021 at 12:33, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Rubbish! Your analogies are akin to the question: "Is Wayne Rooney the manager of Derby County?". That's a binary question. Hmm. I'm not sure that's binary question either ? He kind of is, but according to rules he cannot be as he doesn't have the demanded badges. So it might be that on paper, Rosenior is our manager and Rooney is player/coach/assistant.And that's not really true either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, Curtains said: I think he is the right man though Who is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: Who is? I’m happy with Rooney mate. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Curtains said: I’m happy with Rooney mate. IMO Well, let’s hope it’s not 1 win in 15 at the end of the season ? Curtains 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: Well, let’s hope it’s not 1 win in 15 at the end of the season ? I know you are only giving your opinion mate. Up the Rams Jimbo Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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