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POLL: “Survival” is it success or failure?


POLL: Would survival be seen as success or failure?  

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2 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

What's the point of the manager then?

To bring in his own players, while not in a transfer embargo or under the uncertainty of takeovers or financial crises, and mould a squad under his footballing philosophy and sensible budget.

Or is it to take a team who were rock bottom, under a transfer embargo and protracted takeover talks, under serious financial problems and an owner desperate to sell, and get them to stay up by any means possible?

(I’m not saying I disagree with you GboroRam, just looking for balance).

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2 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Totally agree with you, Curtains. The players have let us down this season and have not been anywhere near good enough.

But the manager is ultimately responsible for what happens on the pitch. It’s all well and good blaming the players, but they follow the instructions of the management team, and that management team has failed us all season. Time to go.

In fairness, not always. I believe under Cocu, the instructions were too complex for the players at this level to follow competently, and I'm pretty sure under Pearson the players were actively ignoring some instructions! 

Not saying that to nit-pick, but rather to back up your point - the quality and delivery of the instructions is as important as the instructions themselves, and whether either is the issue, the end product is the same. Terrible football.

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3 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I not sure at Derby really .

Im being serious.

The players don’t listen 

The manager's job, in my opinion, is to get the best out of the players. That's part coaching, part best friend, part critical observer, part military PT instructor and part social worker. 

Do you see those roles in WR? Is he effective? Do those players enter the pitch thinking they could run through brick walls, that they are invincible? 

I don't.

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2 minutes ago, Duracell said:

How do you doing Curtains, by the way? It's a while since we've replied to each other! Hope you're good.

Of course players make mistakes, you can't account for human error. However, it's also part of the coaches job description to get the best out of the players. Yes, they too must take some responsibility for that, but to flip the question round, what do you see Rooney doing that you think gives the players the platform to do their job to the best of their abilities?

What I see is a team chopping and changing every week. How can you play a ball into space, or make a run, when the players beside you change twice a week? Then in public, Rooney seems to imply that we have absolutely nothing to worry about, then all of a sudden heaps pressure on the team by declaring that Preston was a must-win game. And then there's attacking impotence, which makes you wonder exactly what they work on in the training ground.

 

Man City change the team most weeks .

Players shouldn’t moan if they are left out they need to prove they are good enough  

I’m fine thanks mate  

 

 

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1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Man City change the team most weeks .

Players shouldn’t moan if they are left out they need to prove they are good enough  

I’m fine thanks mate  

 

 

That's true, but the system at City is absolutely nailed down and player A and player B in position X do the same job in a similar way. And they're elite players. 

It rarely works like that at this level. Have we ever had success as a club rotating the team? 

Glad to hear it!

Edited by Duracell
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I went failure and as a Rooney “disciple” it gives me no pleasure. For me, the lack of pride and effort in their performance is unacceptable. That has got to be down to the manager.

I was fully behind Cocu as well until the home games against QPR and Barnsley and I’m seeing a similar trend with Rooney recently. Is he over complicating things for those fit to start games ? I don’t know, but the players don’t seem to be buying into his methods.

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3 minutes ago, GlastoEls said:

To bring in his own players, while not in a transfer embargo or under the uncertainty of takeovers or financial crises, and mould a squad under his footballing philosophy and sensible budget.

Or is it to take a team who were rock bottom, under a transfer embargo and protracted takeover talks, under serious financial problems and an owner desperate to sell, and get them to stay up by any means possible?

(I’m not saying I disagree with you GboroRam, just looking for balance).

Yes, and that's the only saving grace that WR has. He hasn't had a transfer window. 

But, no manager gets to sign a new squad. They have to cut their cloth accordingly and work with the squad they have. I don't believe we belong down where we are, as I feel we should be better performing. And that's Wayne's job to sort out. He isn't getting the best out of what he has, which a successful manager has to be able to do.

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1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

The manager's job, in my opinion, is to get the best out of the players. That's part coaching, part best friend, part critical observer, part military PT instructor and part social worker. 

Do you see those roles in WR? Is he effective? Do those players enter the pitch thinking they could run through brick walls, that they are invincible? 

I don't.

We thrashed Brum earlier in the season at their place .

We changed from Cocu to Rooney and I didn’t like the idea and was backing Cocu right to the end and pointed out Rooney would be Manager but we appointed manager by committee of 4 

Then it was Rooney and he did ok. 
 

Sacking him now would IMO unfair 

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4 minutes ago, Duracell said:

In fairness, not always. I believe under Cocu, the instructions were too complex for the players at this level to follow competently, and I'm pretty sure under Pearson the players were actively ignoring some instructions! 

Not saying that to nit-pick, but rather to back up your point - the quality and delivery of the instructions is as important as the instructions themselves, and whether either is the issue, the end product is the same. Terrible football.

Totally agree with you.

Cocu and Pearson were rightly shown the door. Interesting that it sounds to me like the clearest manager we’ve had (other than McClaren) in terms of getting the players to do what he wanted was Paul Clement. But as with Rooney and all the aforementioned, the rule stays the same:

- The manager is responsible for what happens on the pitch. If the team plays well, he gets the credit. If the team is relying on Rotherham United to stay in the Championship, he needs to go. 

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21 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Yes, and that's the only saving grace that WR has. He hasn't had a transfer window. 

But, no manager gets to sign a new squad. They have to cut their cloth accordingly and work with the squad they have. I don't believe we belong down where we are, as I feel we should be better performing. And that's Wayne's job to sort out. He isn't getting the best out of what he has, which a successful manager has to be able to do.

Don’t disagree with all that. 

But lots of that is subjective “I feel they should be better performing / I don’t believe we belong down where we are”.  

We don’t know what hard target Mel has set him.  If it’s “survive”, then he may yet be successful.
 

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100 weeks after being at Wembley we are staring relegation in the face!  That's failure on a massive scale.

Rooney as a player and manager is a significant part of that failure. Not the only guilty party but still significant. Sure he was dealt a bad hand but knew what he was getting into after shadowing Cocu. 

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4 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

100 weeks after being at Wembley we are staring relegation in the face!  That's failure on a massive scale.

Rooney as a player and manager is a significant part of that failure. Not the only guilty party but still significant. Sure he was dealt a bad hand but knew what he was getting into after shadowing Cocu. 

Yes, regardless of the challenges, Rooney is complicit in these failings....

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His one purple patch coincided with Bielik being available. other than that, it's no better than Cocu - so if Cocu failed then so has Rooney.

He says he wants to have the summer getting players to play how he wants them to, so maybe the current dirge isn't what we might end up with?. I don't know. Players we've discarded have gone on and doing well elsewhere and our squad just doesn't seem to be playing with any passion despite our precarious position.

I'm tempted to say give him 10 games of next season if we stay up but what then? Write off next season as well if he is indeed a bit rubbish?.

I'm conflicted on this because my nature is to want stability. I don't like chopping and changing managers.

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1 hour ago, Leeds Ram said:

Me personally? I don't remember calling for Rowett's head but that's just off the top of my head so i might be misremembering. I reluctantly thought after the run of form the time had come for Cocu to go unfortunately. 

Not you personally mate .

It seems though that if things go wrong the Manager has to go with people calling for it very quickly.

Now if he goes it will be expensive and who would make the decisions.on the way forward.

I actually made a thread about who was in charge and it didn’t go down well .

 

Edited by Curtains
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I'm torn with this one.  Most of us, myself included were pretty buoyant earlier in the season when we had that purple patch but since then, largely, I think due to injuries we've come off the rails.  Bielik's injury started this but we've had injuries to Waggy, Lawrence, Edmunson, CKR, Byrne, Joz, Gregory, Ibe, Stretton, Clarke to name a few.  As a result Rooney's chopped and changed, trying to find a formula that works with what he has, which has created uncertainty and a lack of continuity for the players.  Plus of course several of them have suffered a loss of form or confidence.  Linked? Possibly.  Add to that having to play several youngsters, who, as talented as they are, have been asked to make quite a step up. Would a more experienced / seasoned manager have done better with what he'd have at his disposal - I honestly don't know.  I think it's difficult to judge his success with everything that's come his, and the players' way.  

All I wanted for this season, when Cocu left with us rock bottom, was to survive and start again.  If that happens, then you could say it's a success although it's not a word I'd use in that context.  More like job done. The fact we're now relying on others is what's putting a bitter taste in all our mouths. I would like to see him be given the chance following a re-set, assuming we're still in this league.  If we do go down, then regardless, I think he'll go.  As to his replacement, I haven't a chicken 🐔

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