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Misplaced loyalty


TuffLuff

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1 minute ago, Rammy03 said:

Now it's time for me to apologise to @Jourdan He was right in being cautious all those months ago, we weren't safe, we got the deck chairs out too early and now look where we are.

No apology needed.

We always have good discussions and you are always reasonable and never unpleasant or dismissive, even if you disagree.

I am not looking for an apology from anyone, to be fair.

Maybe just for some people to step back and think about what someone has written and whether it has any merit.

I feel like there are comments and labels that are thrown around unnecessarily. It’s going to be grating, especially if you end up being reasonably correct about something.

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2 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

But seriously how much money have we wasted over the last 12 months that could have been used to keep Keogh and Martin?

Fully get there’s a load of other issues, and it’s maybe not the night to come in, out of the blue, to angle in a discussion about Keogh and Martin (sure I’ll get the laughing/angry emojis and the @David get out meme!).

And yes, Martin’s record for Bristol hasn’t been great, and to many what happened with Keogh was unforgivable. I fully get both those arguments and don’t mean to undermine either but sometimes it’s about putting loyalty in the right place and getting the rewards from it. You can say whatever you like about either, but Keogh on the pitch was much better than anything we have now and Martin worked his arse off to even have a shout of playing for us again. Both of those things in the end should’ve counted for more than they did. We lost two leaders who basically were Derby County, and we are desperately missing that now. This isn’t ‘oo let’s get back to the Mac days’ nostalgia, I have huge questions whether Mac himself is helping in his current role. It wouldn’t have been perfect but it would have helped through this season at least. This is without even considering how much better our youngsters looked around Martin last season to what they do now. 

Also just to point out, I fully get the Keogh hate in regards to the incident. But I’d maybe counter that as we brought in Te Wierik to replace him and gave him zero time to settle in and signed two loan players to replace him. I’m using these examples to say the clubs loyalty, has been put to the wrong people and we are paying the price. I could honestly say the same for Cocu if I really fancied the argument. We took out the leaders and those in charge, those who were in it for the long term and replaced them with nothing but a knee jerk reaction essentially. A bit of patience and maybe some gritted teeth may not have got us anywhere near promotion, but we might be a bit more steady right now.

 

We have paid dearly for lack of leadership on the pitch. And more so as the squad loses faith in Rooney

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13 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

Rather have him than Andre wisdom. You could never fault his passion or effort. Mr Derby county.

I'd rather have someone who's a lesser player but also less of a Bamford.

Mr Derby County my arse, that'll be why he's selfishly demanding a ton of undeserved money from us? The bloke can go duck himself.

Pretending Keogh would step up, lead the team and help prevent our current collapse (a player who's recently been part of a defence conceding 7 goals in one game, with the 2nd worst defensive record in the league) is utter baalocks.

The thread's called misplaced loyalty,  if ever there was an example of that, Keogh is it.

Edited by Coconut
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5 minutes ago, Coconut said:

I'd rather have someone who's a lesser player but also less of a Bamford.

Mr Derby County my arse, that'll be why he's selfishly demanding a ton of undeserved money from us? The bloke can go duck himself.

Pretending Keogh would step up, lead the team and help prevent our current collapse is utter baalocks.

If you forget that it's Keogh and just looked at him as a CB with vast Championship experience with proven leadership skills, there no doubt he would help. I mean, can we even consider Wisdom a natural Centre Back?

anyway, there's no point debating this now...☹️

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16 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

If you forget that it's Keogh and just looked at him as a CB with vast Championship experience with proven leadership skills, there no doubt he would help. I mean, can we even consider Wisdom a natural Centre Back?

anyway, there's no point debating this now...☹️

...but that's the problem.

His leadership skills, when put in a situation like the one we face, and even in a similar (but smaller scale) situation are proven to be a myth.

He has never once stepped up when times are bad and proven himself to be a real leader, he's always done the opposite and there is NO reason to believe (other than misplaced loyalty) that he would be able to make a difference tonus at the minute.

Edited by Coconut
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9 hours ago, Coconut said:

...but that's the problem.

His leadership skills, when put in a situation like the one we face, and even in a similar (but smaller scale) situation are proven to be a myth.

He has never once stepped up when times are bad and proven himself to be a real leader, he's always done the opposite and there is NO reason to believe (other than misplaced loyalty) that he would be able to make a difference tonus at the minute.

It's hard to say how much of a leader he was unless you were actually in the dressing room as part of the team. You can't argue on ability alone in his prime he was a good Champ defender and possibly even now I'd take him over Wisdom. There must have been a reason why manager after manager kept picking him and making him captain.

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11 hours ago, Ramos said:

I know I did. I foresaw everything happening from the moment Bobby Zamora put it in the net - but I found something good on telly and completely forgot to tell everyone. 

I was open to believing you, but when you said you found something good on telly I knew you had to be making it up.

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13 hours ago, sage said:

What springs to mind post NC is we stopped looking at the character of potential signings. We used to have leaders on the pitch.

 

You said in a sentence something which took me three paragraphs!

Weve gradually lost the spine of the side

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