The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 20 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: Well, ask some on here who don’t seem to think that is the case regarding Rooney.....read some of the comments. It’s not his responsibility.... You're looking at it too simplistically. Yes, the manager is responsible for tactics and to a degree motivation BUT professional sportsmen with any self respect are also self motivated. They have, or should have, pride in their own performance and attitude. You make it sound like they all shuffle in with hands in pockets looking at the floor and if Rooney doesn't give them a Henry 5th battle of Agincourt speech they cant perform. It really isn't like that. Believe me, the players are as much if not more responsible than Rooney. Maybe he has told them they are crap, which they are, and they have reacted like babies! They need some backbone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Just now, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: You're looking at it too simplistically. Yes, the manager is responsible for tactics and to a degree motivation BUT professional sportsmen with any self respect are also self motivated. They have, or should have, pride in their own performance and attitude. You make it sound like they all shuffle in with hands in pockets looking at the floor and if Rooney doesn't give them a Henry 5th battle of Agincourt speech they cant perform. It really isn't like that. Believe me, the players are as much if not more responsible than Rooney. Maybe he has told them they are crap, which they are, and they have reacted like babies! They need some backbone. No, you are totally missing the point that regardless, whatever the reasons are, the manager takes ultimate responsibility for the failings on the pitch.... GenBr, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong, Deej and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Just now, Jimbo Ram said: No, you are totally missing the point that regardless, whatever the reasons are, the manager takes ultimate responsibility for the failings on the pitch.... Yes, I get that but why are you letting the players off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Just now, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: Yes, I get that but why are you letting the players off? I am not, but the players don’t get sacked, the Manager does. The manager takes responsibility, it’s really not rocket science. Wazza is only still in the job due to finances and the takeover fiasco. Otherwise trigger happy Mel would have got rid by now... LeedsCityRam, Deej, GenBr and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said: it's the managers responsibility to get it out of the players. Many of them have shown previously that they can hack it at this level. There were better players around them. The squad is quite weak now compared to even 2 seasons ago. The Scarlet Pimpernel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: I am not, but the players don’t get sacked, the Manager does. The manager takes responsibility, it’s really not rocket science. Wazza is only still in the job due to finances and the takeover fiasco. Otherwise trigger happy Mel would have got rid by now... OK Jimbo, lets sack the manager. The players don't change. How long before the next manager is sacked or are the players suddenly going to find ability they don't have? What's the plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said: No we don’t but players can’t get a free pass. Many have failed under two managers now. Not good enough not committed enough. Obviously the players have to take some responsibility, but don't our failings have more to do with the fact those "two managers" have been two of the worst managers in Derby's history? Edited April 23, 2021 by DCFClks Chris_Martin and GenBr 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said: There were better players around them. The squad is quite weak now compared to even 2 seasons ago. i'm not referring to the Lampard team. Waghorn & Lawrence have both proved they can at Ipswich who had a very questionable side. Bielik & Clarke we all know their quality Byrne & Marshall have both proved it at Wigan recently Jozwiak has proved it with Poland We all know Wisdom, Bird, Forsyth, Knight, Buchanan, can play better DCFC Kicks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: OK Jimbo, lets sack the manager. The players don't change. How long before the next manager is sacked or are the players suddenly going to find ability they don't have? What's the plan? The squad will have a complete overhaul in the summer, just rather it wasn’t Wazza overseeing it. I am not a sack sack sack poster, was one of the last arguing Cocu’s case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 minute ago, DCFClks said: Obviously the players have to take some responsibility, but doesn't our failings have more to do with the fact those "two managers" have been two of the worst managers in Derby's history? No - more to do with having to rely on too many inexperienced young players, too many past their sell by date, too many basically not top Championship quality and not being in a financial position to radically improve the playing squad to the level needed. That's not to say the managers haven't made mistakes, of course they have but the fundamental problem is that this squad simply isn't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: No - more to do with having to rely on too many inexperienced young players, too many past their sell by date, too many basically not top Championship quality and not being in a financial position to radically improve the playing squad to the level needed. That's not to say the managers haven't made mistakes, of course they have but the fundamental problem is that this squad simply isn't good enough. I'm not saying they're top quality, but aren't they at least good enough to avoid relegation? Are you saying the quality of the squad on paper is in the bottom 3 in the league? If you are I just have to disagree. Edited April 23, 2021 by DCFClks Chris_Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 I can accept claims the squad is not as strong as we’d like but does a lack of skill/quality also mean a lack of application/effort ? You don’t have to be the best footballer in the league to cover, track runners and generally make life more difficult for your opponent. I’m not seeing too much graft. Deej and LeedsCityRam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, DCFClks said: Obviously the players have to take some responsibility, but don't our failings have more to do with the fact those "two managers" have been two of the worst managers in Derby's history? Well Cocu had a lot of bad luck, no preseason and weren’t we doing OK until COVID hit? Especially since we lost some key players from the year before. I think with fans we would be performing better regardless but compare squads over the last 3 years and they have gradually weakened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 2 hours ago, BondJovi said: Rooney has been working in some form with these players since November 19. None of this should have caught him out. He cannot expect to command the fight from the players when he himself didn't do it as a player/captain/coach. He did what they are doing now. You reap what you sow. ^This They saw the same useless lump waddling around giving minimal effort that we saw. The worst part was he was technically the best player in the squad by some distance...........he just didn’t seem to care. RadioactiveWaste and Deej 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Ramarena said: ^This They saw the same useless lump waddling around giving minimal effort that we saw. The worst part was he was technically the best player in the squad by some distance...........he just didn’t seem to care. Rooney was at the last stages of a long career, whether the above is a true statement or not, our players are not at a comparable stage. Unless of course those out of contract players don't actually give a damn and that is having an effect on the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 42 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: OK Jimbo, lets sack the manager. The players don't change. How long before the next manager is sacked or are the players suddenly going to find ability they don't have? What's the plan? Can see your point: there needs to be a plan in place. One of the biggest criticisms of Mel Morris' tenure should be his consistent chopping and changing, not necessarily of managers, but of managers who have very different styles/visions for the way we play. take this for example: - Clement (possession), to Pearson (low possession, counter), to McClaren (possession/overload) to Rowett (low possession, counter), to Lampard (total gamble), to Cocu (possession), to Rooney (total gamble). But every single one of these appointments can be justified for one simple reason: the right appointment can transform any team. There's so many examples of this in the game that I won't bore you with them, but look perhaps at the recent effect of say: Bielsa on that Leeds team, Warnock on that Boro team, McCarthy on that Cardiff team. Same players at the beginning of their tenure, total transformation in playing style (and results). The Rooney gamble hasn't worked and we're hurtling towards relegation. We have 1 win in our last 12 games. Can you really blame supporters for feeling like time is up on this marketing-appointment and wanting the club to have another go at making the right appointment? Deej 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said: Is Jodie Marsh available, might do a better job in motivating the players...... She might get them up for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Just now, Nuwtfly said: The ... gamble hasn't worked and we're hurtling towards relegation. We have 1 win in our last 12 games. Can you really blame supporters for feeling like time is up on this marketing-appointment and wanting the club to have another go at making the right appointment? Not for the first time! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Just now, RoyMac5 said: Rooney was at the last stages of a long career, whether the above is a true statement or not, our players are not at a comparable stage. Unless of course those out of contract players don't actually give a damn and that is having an effect on the squad. I don’t even know what you’re trying to say here. Has very little relevance to what I said. He was useless at the start of this season. Out of shape, no motivation, incredibly poor performances...........yet first name on the team sheet. The current squad saw this, played and trained with it. But yeah I’m sure it had no impact at all. The out of contract players don’t care theme we’re trying to develop here doesn’t wash. Many are playing for their careers...........Who in our squad has a deal lined up??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: Not for the first time! ? Sadly Roy it's something that will keep happening again and again and again until we get it right. And when we do get it right it'll be fantastic for a while. Maybe a few years. Maybe less than that. Because they'll be off to somewhere else if they do that well, anyway! And the cycle repeats! Welcome to football! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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