Rooney’s Style of Play/Identity

[RoyMac5]

@ilkleyram said: "It looks as if Wayne would agree with those who wonder what his style is. In his latest pre match interview on Ramstv he says that he would like the team to play in the style that he wants - he doesn’t describe what that is, nor is asked that question - but would like a pre-season and his players to do so.

He also said that this season he’s had to set the team up match by match to try to get results to stay up, the implication being that he's done that rather than develop a single style of play.

Given where we were when he took over, that it was a good way into the season and that he wasn’t manager immediately, never mind his level of managerial experience, that seems a reasonable approach and strategy to me. The important thing is to try and stay up this season and whether we do that or not (and if the new owners afford Wayne the opportunity) he will have the chance to develop something next season."

? Still this.

[rynny]

8 hours ago, sage said:

Lawrence is 27 and still doesn't know when to pass. Rowett,  Lampard and Cocu couldn't get him to either.

So was Jamie Ward when Mac was in charge and he managed to teach him. 

I thought under Lampard he had improved his decision making a lot, and was more of a team player as he had players around him. Last season he wasn't quite as good, but still better than under Rowett. 

8 hours ago, sage said:

Sibley and Roberts aren't one touch players. It's not their strengths. 

It is something they would have to work on for sure, but they are both young enough. 

8 hours ago, sage said:

My biggest frustration with Derby over the last 7 years is how we have spent so much money going backwards from Russell, Ward and Dawkins. We have had wingers with more ability on the ball, but not team players. 

CKR is strong but doesn't recycle the ball as quickly or accurately as Martin. 

Agreed. 

CKR isn't as good as Martin at it but there aren't that many, if any, that can do it better than Martin at this level. I do, however, think CKR could do a decent job of it, if he actually had someone near him to pass it quickly. 

[rynny]

10 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

Given where we were when he took over, that it was a good way into the season and that he wasn’t manager immediately, never mind his level of managerial experience, that seems a reasonable approach and strategy to me. The important thing is to try and stay up this season and whether we do that or not (and if the new owners afford Wayne the opportunity) he will have the chance to develop something next season.

I not sure how you can say we were a good way into the season, we had played 11 games when Cocu left, 13 when Rooney took sole charge. 

Rooney has said he has been thinking about being a manager for years, that should have included style of play and how to get players to adapt to it. He may not be an experienced manager but he has some of the best managers of recent times a phone call away, I'm sure if he gave Fergie, Mourinho, Van Gaal etc a call they would all help him and give him advice on the best way to implement his style. I'm sure playing one way each game would have been more beneficial to the team than changing every few days, for each game. 

[Sparkle]

You can only play a style to suit what you have in terms of players available football is simple 

[ilkleyram]

1 hour ago, rynny said:

I not sure how you can say we were a good way into the season, we had played 11 games when Cocu left, 13 when Rooney took sole charge. 

Rooney has said he has been thinking about being a manager for years, that should have included style of play and how to get players to adapt to it. He may not be an experienced manager but he has some of the best managers of recent times a phone call away, I'm sure if he gave Fergie, Mourinho, Van Gaal etc a call they would all help him and give him advice on the best way to implement his style. I'm sure playing one way each game would have been more beneficial to the team than changing every few days, for each game. 

We're arguing over semantics here @rynny.  15 games is a third of the way in, 13 is a 'good way' in (in my view) and 3 more games than the 'lets see where we are after 10 games' brigade.

What Wayne had not had, by starting after 13 games, is a pre-season (in a division where we routinely play 3 games a week, not allowing any time to develop properly a distinct style of play) or a transfer window (the general view at the time was that the one window he has had was, overall, a positive one).  Nor has he had the time (or perhaps the inclination and money and opportunity) to bring in his people. It would be surprising if he hadn't sought advice from the likes of Ferguson.  Perhaps they advised him to do exactly what he is doing - get through this season, do anything and everything to stay up and then go from there when you have the time and, hopefully, a bit of money.

I might also argue that a mixture of injuries and form has also had a huge impact, as you might expect from any team towards the bottom of any division.  We played very well when Bielik was fit and in form; Curtis was a big player for us at the back; we're going into a match against the runaway league leaders without several senior pros and a bench that will look like a footballing kindergarten.  In and amongst that no one has shown any consistent form throughout the season, even the player who will probably become our player of the season.  A player who looks good one match, doesn't the next.

I'm sure you, or others, might argue that latter point would be helped with a single style.  Perhaps.  But also perhaps not.  If that style led to being beaten badly and regularly perhaps the confidence would sink even lower to a point where it's impossible to recover. There would certainly be demands on this forum for another plan if plan A was unsuccessful.

He set out to make us harder to score against, get the ball forward more quickly.  A style of sorts.  Rudimentary or simpler maybe but with some success.  He's then tried to make us more of an attacking force, recognising that we might have become better at stopping goals but we needed to score more.  All with the sole aim of trying to get enough points to stay in the division.  As a strategy for the season, given the players he has at his disposal, the fact he came in part way through the season, that players' form has had the consistency of a yo-yo and that injuries to key players at key times has had a significant effect, my view is that he is right to take a pragmatic game by game approach until he has time to sort it out, if he's allowed the chance to do so.

[rynny]

19 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

We're arguing over semantics here @rynny.  15 games is a third of the way in, 13 is a 'good way' in (in my view) and 3 more games than the 'lets see where we are after 10 games' brigade.

What Wayne had not had, by starting after 13 games, is a pre-season (in a division where we routinely play 3 games a week, not allowing any time to develop properly a distinct style of play) or a transfer window (the general view at the time was that the one window he has had was, overall, a positive one).  Nor has he had the time (or perhaps the inclination and money and opportunity) to bring in his people. It would be surprising if he hadn't sought advice from the likes of Ferguson.  Perhaps they advised him to do exactly what he is doing - get through this season, do anything and everything to stay up and then go from there when you have the time and, hopefully, a bit of money.

I might also argue that a mixture of injuries and form has also had a huge impact, as you might expect from any team towards the bottom of any division.  We played very well when Bielik was fit and in form; Curtis was a big player for us at the back; we're going into a match against the runaway league leaders without several senior pros and a bench that will look like a footballing kindergarten.  In and amongst that no one has shown any consistent form throughout the season, even the player who will probably become our player of the season.  A player who looks good one match, doesn't the next.

I'm sure you, or others, might argue that latter point would be helped with a single style.  Perhaps.  But also perhaps not.  If that style led to being beaten badly and regularly perhaps the confidence would sink even lower to a point where it's impossible to recover. There would certainly be demands on this forum for another plan if plan A was unsuccessful.

He set out to make us harder to score against, get the ball forward more quickly.  A style of sorts.  Rudimentary or simpler maybe but with some success.  He's then tried to make us more of an attacking force, recognising that we might have become better at stopping goals but we needed to score more.  All with the sole aim of trying to get enough points to stay in the division.  As a strategy for the season, given the players he has at his disposal, the fact he came in part way through the season, that players' form has had the consistency of a yo-yo and that injuries to key players at key times has had a significant effect, my view is that he is right to take a pragmatic game by game approach until he has time to sort it out, if he's allowed the chance to do so.

You make it sound like it is impossible to change a style of a team once you get past 12 games. Plenty of managers have gone into teams that have played more games than what we had when Rooney was made manager, and changed the teams style and been a success. Nigel Clough here being one example. 

You have some valid points, it's just my opinion we had enough games to implement a style and attempt to move up the table and build for next season, instead of starting from scratch in the summer. We could have recruited loan players with the style in mind and to look at loan players that we could hopefully bring back next season. 

[Nuwtfly]

15 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Watching the latest Ramstv video - we've got a starting 11! I can't believe Cocu had it this bad and look at the sympathy he got. 

I swear to god, you are Phillip’s ex wife 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

I swear to god, you are Phillip’s ex wife 

Philip? Philip is that you? I've told you to stop reading that forum, it'll only upset you to see what fans think of you!

[ilkleyram]

1 hour ago, rynny said:

You make it sound like it is impossible to change a style of a team once you get past 12 games. Plenty of managers have gone into teams that have played more games than what we had when Rooney was made manager, and changed the teams style and been a success. Nigel Clough here being one example. 

You have some valid points, it's just my opinion we had enough games to implement a style and attempt to move up the table and build for next season, instead of starting from scratch in the summer. We could have recruited loan players with the style in mind and to look at loan players that we could hopefully bring back next season. 

But we have changed the style of play. This is not the style we were used to under Cocu. And we have moved up the table from when he took over. And we have recruited loan players (certainly Mengi) probably Edmondsen, possibly Roberts and Gregory and maybe the lad from Everton, with a view to them being around next season too.

What he hasn’t done is created a single style, formation, way of playing and applied it to every match and every opposition. He would clearly like to do that but feels he needs the players and the concentrated practice time to do so.  Sensible in my view.

[DCFC Kicks]

17 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

?

Were you one of the people who said Dowell was terrible last season and blaming player's like him for our struggles last season?

Well he's now one of the best player's in the league for Norwich, doesn't that tell you everything?

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, DCFClks said:

Were you one of the people who said Dowell was terrible last season and blaming player's like him for our struggles last season?

Well he's now one of the best player's in the league for Norwich, doesn't that tell you everything?

Yeah I'm to blame for the way the manager played him. ? Oh and he isn't the first player we've had on loan that looks better in another team!

[DCFC Kicks]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yeah I'm to blame for the way the manager played him. ? Oh and he isn't the first player we've had on loan that looks better in another team!

well then have you not just partly proved my point that you disagreed with earlier, that maybe the team has more quality than it's showing, and that maybe the manager's playing them wrong?

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

well then have you not just partly proved my point that you disagreed with earlier, that maybe the team has more quality than it's showing, and that maybe the manager's playing them wrong?

No. Dowell was awful for us. He's now playing with much better players. Who are our quality players, do tell.

[IslandExile]

I had to miss today's game but I was delighted to see that Rooney selected Jozwiak, Lawrence and Roberts.

I am sure that is the way to go against lesser teams than Norwich.

[DCFC Kicks]

31 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No. Dowell was awful for us. He's now playing with much better players. Who are our quality players, do tell.

I don't understand your logic. So a good player is only good when they play with other good players? Were Lawrence and Waghorn only good at Ipswich because they were playing with better players? Is Clarke now a bad player because he plays with other bad players? how many "good players" do you need in a team to make the other players "good"?

A list of players who've played better for another club or there country:

Marshall - Scotland

Jozwiak - Poland

Lawrence - Ipswich (or under Lampard)

Waghorn - Ipswich (or under Lampard)

Roberts - Celtic

added to Shinnie, Clarke and Byrne who are the only players to perform this season,

that's 8 players, is 8 good players enough? or were they only good players then because they were playing with other good players??

 

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

I don't understand your logic. So a good player is only good when they play with other good players? Were Lawrence and Waghorn only good at Ipswich because they were playing with better players? Is Clarke now a bad player because he plays with other bad players? how many "good players" do you need in a team to make the other players "good"?

Dowell was poor/awful in his performances here.

He seems a decent player but playing with a team full of good players makes it easier to look good also.

A good player can be a good player in a team of poor players, where did I say otherwise?

What is your point about Dowell - are you trying to say he was a good player for us? I have no idea what axe you are trying to grind, suggest you take the bee out your bonnet mate.

[VulcanRam]

Whatever Rooney's style is he got it right today. Lawrence, Joswiak, Roberts in and around CKR.

What he couldn't have banked on is not one of them could play a decent through ball, hit a decent cross or, God forbid, shoot. The lack of quality in the final third given the amount of possession we had was crazy. They all played well enough until that critical moment.

I don't know what else any manager is meant to do. 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, VulcanRam said:

Whatever Rooney's style is he got it right today. Lawrence, Joswiak, Roberts in and around CKR.

What he couldn't have banked on is not one of them could play a decent through ball, hit a decent cross or, God forbid, shoot. The lack of quality in the final third given the amount of possession we had was crazy. They all played well enough until that critical moment.

I don't know what else any manager is meant to do. 

True. But we have known all season that we are criminally short of quality in the striking dept. TBH we are/were criminally short of 'bodies' in that area. Got the feeling Gregory would have been in the right place today - he has a strikers instincts.

[islandram]

23 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

so you'd be happy wasting another season?

no but if you read the news that a takeover is imminent you will hope we are able to move players on scout better and we can get behind team manager and club if we are top 6 next season under him the people who only see short term will be hiding. if we are bottom half he will be gone and Lampard will be back.

[Chris_Martin]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

No. Dowell was awful for us. He's now playing with much better players. Who are our quality players, do tell.

Lawrence, Waghorn, Bogle, Huddlestone, Holmes, Martin, to name a few,  they have all proven to be top 6 players before, some of them higher.