LeedsCityRam Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 Just now, RoyMac5 said: Lol. Mr Experienced Manager Cocu? He had two preseasons and how many transfer windows? He showed NO sign of understanding what the Championship was all about and how to get out. The talk when he was sacked was how he overcomplicated everything. Struggling here, how true. Pretty much proved everything I said in my initial post. Clearly you're choosing to ignore the circumstances of his first pre-season, the soft embargo in Jan & reputed extension into last June/July, as it seriously weakens your point. Cocu got this squad to 10th so clearly had some understanding of the division. Not sure how you can accuse Cocu of over-complicating whilst Rooney changes formation, half the team & style of play on a game by game basis. IslandExile, Ramarena, S8TY and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said: Not sure how you can accuse Cocu of over-complicating whilst Rooney changes formation, half the team & style of play on a game by game basis. No, no, let's be fair. Rooney has simplified the tactics: "Match what Barnsley do. Hoof it high, hoof it long and in a roughly forward direction". LeedsCityRam, Deej and Andicis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 Why does Rooney need a preseason to instill his style of play? He could have started as soon as he was appointed, we still had three quarters of the season to play. It seriously couldn't have been any more difficult playing a single way the whole season than playing different formations, players and apparent tactics each game. LeedsCityRam, Nuwtfly, Millenniumram and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 minute ago, rynny said: Why does Rooney need a preseason to instill his style of play? He could have started as soon as he was appointed, we still had three quarters of the season to play. It seriously couldn't have been any more difficult playing a single way the whole season than playing different formations, players and apparent tactics each game. I don't get it either. How can changing tactics every match be easier for the players to adapt to than finding something that works and sticking to it? At least we could then build off something. Currently we have nothing to build from. rynny, LeedsCityRam, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, sage said: I'd be interested to see poster's opinions on which style of play would suit our current squad. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, Andicis said: I don't get it either. How can changing tactics every match be easier for the players to adapt to than finding something that works and sticking to it? At least we could then build off something. Currently we have nothing to build from. Feels like we have wasted the last 6 months, we will be starting from scratch once again next season. How many games will he give his style of play if we have a poor start to the season? Will we be going back to this game by game plan if we are struggling? Andicis and IslandExile 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, sage said: I'd be interested to see poster's opinions on which style of play would suit our current squad. 5 minutes ago, sage said: Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? You could tell us what you think. To me, we seem to get better results/performances playing 3 at the back and using Byrne and Buchanan to provide the width. That does allow us to play 3-4-1-2 so with, say, Sibley or Lawrence in the number 10 role and two upfront (CKR and Gregory). The downside is that the two central midfielders have tended to both be defensive selections. So my preference would be 4-4-2. Still two upfront, but two attacking wide men. One attack minded midfielder, one more defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, sage said: I'd be interested to see poster's opinions on which style of play would suit our current squad. I would play a 4-2-3-1 Marshall Byrne Wisdom Clarke Buchanan Bird Knight Roberts Sibley Lawrence CKR Tactics I would use would be similar to Mac1, fast attacking, 1 touch football. Use Waghorn, Jozwiak, Watson and Gregory around 60-70 mins for the front 4, Shinnie for either Bird or Knight, depending on how the game was going/how they were performing. IslandExile and LeedsCityRam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, IslandExile said: You could tell us what you think. To me, we seem to get better results/performances playing 3 at the back and using Byrne and Buchanan to provide the width. That does allow us to play 3-4-1-2 so with, say, Sibley or Lawrence in the number 10 role and two upfront (CKR and Gregory). The downside is that the two central midfielders have tended to both be defensive selections. So my preference would be 4-4-2. Still two upfront, but two attacking wide men. One attack minded midfielder, one more defensive. I wasn't one of those slagging Rooney for not having an identifiable style of play. Everyone thought he was a genius when he swapped tactics against different opponents when he was winning. Now he is clueless because we are losing. It's difficult to pin down a style of play with this squad. It's such a mish mash of players. We don't have the passers to play a possession style, we don't have enough pace and stamina to press as well as some other teams. We don't have the forwards to dominate aerially or run in behind. He started out high tempo with a press that lasted 30 minutes, then sat deeper and looked to hold yes off outside our box. However the small size of the squad and the 2 games a week stymied that. I would imagine pressing and high tempo will be his foundation next season. Hopefully we will still be in the championship and have players who can press consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, rynny said: I would play a 4-2-3-1 Marshall Byrne Wisdom Clarke Buchanan Bird Knight Roberts Sibley Lawrence CKR Tactics I would use would be similar to Mac1, fast attacking, 1 touch football. Use Waghorn, Jozwiak, Watson and Gregory around 60-70 mins for the front 4, Shinnie for either Bird or Knight, depending on how the game was going/how they were performing. I loved that style, but would it work with those players? Roberts, Sibley and Lawrence are all very much individuals, they all want several touches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, sage said: I loved that style, but would it work with those players? Roberts, Sibley and Lawrence are all very much individuals, they all want several touches. Isn't that where the manager/coach exerts their influence? LeedsCityRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, sage said: Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? Something quite close to McClaren's first spell here. Possession football with purpose & look to open teams up with one touch passing and movement. We have defenders that by & large are comfortable in possession. We have a CF with a fantastic first touch, vision & strength. We have attacking midfielders & wingers that clearly have potential but are often totally outnumbered and are dropped so regularly as to dent any burgeoning confidence or understanding with teammates. Know you're not a fan of Sibley starting but his moments of genius in between two wide men (with all 3 able to swap positions at will) would make us a dangerous prospect. Massive fan of Max Bird so he sits in midfield & directs traffic - I sense his confidence has slipped since he's been in & out the team. Him & either Shinnie/Knight sitting in a 4-2-3-1 @rynnyonly spotted your post once I posted - pretty much exactly what you've just said. Edited April 9, 2021 by LeedsCityRam rynny, IslandExile, Ramarena and 2 others 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, sage said: I loved that style, but would it work with those players? Roberts, Sibley and Lawrence are all very much individuals, they all want several touches. At times you need someone to dribble past players, Ward, Hendrick, Hughes and Russell all had the ability to carry the ball. It is getting the players to learn when to pass and when to dribble/shoot. IslandExile and kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, rynny said: At times you need someone to dribble past players, Ward, Hendrick, Hughes and Russell all had the ability to carry the ball. It is getting the players to learn when to pass and when to dribble/shoot. Agreed. Jozwiak, Roberts, Lawrence and Sibley all have the ability but their decision making could be better. I would also argue that it would be easier for them - and more entertaining for us - if there were more of them on the pitch at the same time. Jozwiak gets a lot of stick on here but he's often the only creative player on the pitch so gets crowded out by defenders. With more attacking players on the pitch, there would be more space and they could create more chances. Come on Rooney - loosen the shackles. Edited April 9, 2021 by IslandExile rynny and LeedsCityRam 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 47 minutes ago, sage said: Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? You get a like for the Ferris reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, rynny said: At times you need someone to dribble past players, Ward, Hendrick, Hughes and Russell all had the ability to carry the ball. It is getting the players to learn when to pass and when to dribble/shoot. Lawrence is 27 and still doesn't know when to pass. Rowett, Lampard and Cocu couldn't get him to either. Sibley and Roberts aren't one touch players. It's not their strengths. My biggest frustration with Derby over the last 7 years is how we have spent so much money going backwards from Russell, Ward and Dawkins. We have had wingers with more ability on the ball, but not team players. CKR is strong but doesn't recycle the ball as quickly or accurately as Martin. rynny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 22 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said: Something quite close to McClaren's first spell here. Possession football with purpose & look to open teams up with one touch passing and movement. We have defenders that by & large are comfortable in possession. We have a CF with a fantastic first touch, vision & strength. We have attacking midfielders & wingers that clearly have potential but are often totally outnumbered and are dropped so regularly as to dent any burgeoning confidence or understanding with teammates. Know you're not a fan of Sibley starting but his moments of genius in between two wide men (with all 3 able to swap positions at will) would make us a dangerous prospect. Massive fan of Max Bird so he sits in midfield & directs traffic - I sense his confidence has slipped since he's been in & out the team. Him & either Shinnie/Knight sitting in a 4-2-3-1 @rynnyonly spotted your post once I posted - pretty much exactly what you've just said. I would agree that you need threats on both flanks and as a result Jozwiak usually receives the ball with 2 or 3 defenders around him. Sibley does have great potential but he gives the ball away so much its unbelievable. His defensive work is really poor too. Hopefully Rooney can work on that, but it's hard when we play every 3 or 4 days and are desperate for points. If he is manager next season and a style doesn't appear, then I think it's a fair criticism but for the minute it's a scrap with ever dwindling resources. IslandExile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 Just now, sage said: I would agree that you need threats on both flanks and as a result Jozwiak usually receives the ball with 2 or 3 defenders around him. Sibley does have great potential but he gives the ball away so much its unbelievable. His defensive work is really poor too. Hopefully Rooney can work on that, but it's hard when we play every 3 or 4 days and are desperate for points. If he is manager next season and a style doesn't appear, then I think it's a fair criticism but for the minute it's a scrap with ever dwindling resources. Yes, I've been critical of Sibley's ability to retain possession recently. Jozwiak would be a good role model for him as he keeps the ball incredibly well in tight areas & is defensively disciplined (and effective) Fair point about pragmatism in tough circumstances & I certainly agreed with Rooney's initial approach in making us tough to beat & conceding very few goals. I think some of us would have liked (once we got 8-10 points clear of the bottom 3 - which has happened twice now) to see more ambitious line ups & an indication of what his sides really look like. The approach against Millwall at home & Stoke away was safety first to the point of absurd & suggested Rooney is looking at significant personnel changes come the summer. 4 points should have been achievable in those 2 games, which would have made us virtually safe. Ramarena, IslandExile and angieram 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 7 hours ago, DCFClks said: Why does our club have to be the club where managers learn there trade? We're not a B Team. That's the whole point of my post. DCFC Kicks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 I think what I’d like from Rooney and the new owners is a team identifiable as Derby County. What I mean by that is a team without loanees. A loyal team that will run for each other, support each other, have each other’s backs. A team with leaders. A team that plays with a smile on its face. A team that values its fans. We can then take our seats each week with a sense of pride. Deej, IslandExile and richinspain 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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