Chris_Martin Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said: Would disagree about Waghorn and Lawrence, if memory serves we fell into the same old trap with both of them of signing them on the back of purple patch seasons a la Mr Blackman. so what were Lawrence & Waghorn doing under Lampard then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 2 hours ago, BondJovi said: Waghorn had a standard season last and Lawrence one of his best,actually his best goals wise. Dare I say Martin also had his best season for any team for a few years. Lawrence has been injured a lot this season. Waghorn is just having a stinker. Doesn't have to be down to coaching all the time. I don't think anyone got worse last season except Marriott but his rot had started under Lampard. Yet, Bird, Knight and Sibley have yet to match the standards they set last season. Is that down to Rooney? Or just classic second season struggles? As for Dowell, he just didn't work here. Crowd didn't give him much chance either. That's 6 player's you've gave reasons for, and that's not including players like Holmes and Paterson. for me that's too much of a trend. I especially don't agree with the Bird, Knight and Sibley reason. and why are they all attacking players? I wouldn't say any of the defensive players have got worse under Rooney(they did under Cocu). I just think Cocu and Rooney don't have the attacking tactical knowledge, or at least they didn't/aren't showing it. Our attacking play is worse than the quality we have. I think Lawrence and Waghorns best seasons were under Lampard, not stats wise but overall play, they looked like they enjoyed playing then, they've looked miserable the last 2 seasons, Lawrence barely celebrates when he score. It wouldn't surprise me if they both were desperate to leave and I wouldn't blame them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: Lawrence's best season was under Cocu last year... but don't let facts get in the way Stats wise yes, but that was because he was playing in CAM a lot. His overall play was better under Lampard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 48 minutes ago, DCFClks said: I just think Cocu and Rooney don't have the attacking tactical knowledge, or at least they didn't/aren't showing it. Our attacking play is worse than the quality we have. What quality? ? There was Colin & Tom. Waghorn couldn't be bothered. Lawrence has been injured and so now is Colin. Gregory is also injured, so is Stretton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 17 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: What quality? ? There was Colin & Tom. Waghorn couldn't be bothered. Lawrence has been injured and so now is Colin. Gregory is also injured, so is Stretton. Most those injuries have only just happened in the last 2 games. I've tried to explain in my last 5 replies to you where I think the quality is. I don't know what else I can say ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, DCFClks said: Most those injuries have only just happened in the last 2 games. I've tried to explain in my last 5 replies to you where I think the quality is. I don't know what else I can say ? You keep going on about 'it's the managers fault' - tell me who in our vast attacking strike force other teams would be interested in? One of your listed 'quality players' went to Huddersfield - not exactly far ahead of us. Most of the injuries - Lawrence? Even Colin has been injured for more than a game or two, and before that was expected to play most of the time. Silk purse out of a sows ear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Chris_Martin said: so what were Lawrence & Waghorn doing under Lampard then? Was that a rhetorical question, I dunno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 46 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Was that a rhetorical question, I dunno? no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: You keep going on about 'it's the managers fault' - tell me who in our vast attacking strike force other teams would be interested in? One of your listed 'quality players' went to Huddersfield - not exactly far ahead of us. Most of the injuries - Lawrence? Even Colin has been injured for more than a game or two, and before that was expected to play most of the time. Silk purse out of a sows ear? Lawrence, Sibley and Jozwiak have more natural ability than most players in this division, Marshall and Byrne are above average Championship players, Clarke is one of the best CB's in the league, Knight's been linked with PL teams a few times. Even players like Gregory have proven they are at least mid table quality in the past. Many of the games when we've played CKR, Waghorn's been available. Player's don't just turn bad overnight, he's proved he's a decent player before. He didn't play because you can't just hoof the ball up to him like with CKR, he's a more technical player where you need more intricate tactical knowledge to get the best out of him, which our coaches don't seem to have. I'm not saying we have have the quality to win the league, I'm saying they have enough to not be in a relegation battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 19 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: If Rooney can get a limited squad with almost no strikers to play well against Norwich and not look bad what is the problem? Might I suggest the problem is the limited squad - or is that too obvious! 2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: You keep going on about 'it's the managers fault' - tell me who in our vast attacking strike force other teams would be interested in? One of your listed 'quality players' went to Huddersfield - not exactly far ahead of us. Most of the injuries - Lawrence? Even Colin has been injured for more than a game or two, and before that was expected to play most of the time. Silk purse out of a sows ear? Results: Under Cocu - it's all the manager's fault. Under Rooney - it's injuries and the quality of the squad. I think the phrase "double standards" springs to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 30 minutes ago, IslandExile said: Under Cocu - it's all the manager's fault. Under Rooney - it's injuries and the quality of the squad. I think the phrase "double standards" springs to mind. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanS1992 Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 On 10/04/2021 at 17:07, DCFClks said: Were you one of the people who said Dowell was terrible last season and blaming player's like him for our struggles last season? Well he's now one of the best player's in the league for Norwich, doesn't that tell you everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 56 minutes ago, IslandExile said: Results: Under Cocu - it's all the manager's fault. Under Rooney - it's injuries and the quality of the squad. I think the phrase "double standards" springs to mind. At least I'm consistent and think that both managers were and are respectively crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: At least I'm consistent and think that both managers were and are respectively crap. Fair play. Inconsistency does grate on me. Personally, I feel it's difficult to entirely judge either manager. Both have had circumstances and injuries beyond reason. And both have inherited a poor squad and not had the funds to turn that around. Equally, neither manager have always helped themselves with tactics and team selections so I can understand your point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 6 hours ago, DCFClks said: Stats wise yes, but that was because he was playing in CAM a lot. His overall play was better under Lampard. All but 1 or 2 games were LW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 On 08/04/2021 at 14:25, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said: Got the job because of his name only. No other 34 year old would have been given this job under the circumstances we are in. His name only? So what you're saying is the fact that he has scored more goals for England than any person in history, has won more trophies than 90% of the professional clubs in England combined and has played under some great managers, including arguably the best ever didn't come into the equation? Your probably right that no other 34-year-old would have been given the job. But that's because no other 34-year-old has his pedigree. Cloughie was younger than Rooney when he took over Derby and had barely scraped a winning record at Hartlepools. In his first season we finished lower than the previous year. You'd have sacked him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 43 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: All but 1 or 2 games were LW It's difficult to say as the 3 behind the striker used to swap positions in game. I you look at the Middlesbrough home game, the lineup says Lawrence was in LW but both his goals clearly came when he was in CAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 5 hours ago, IslandExile said: Fair play. Inconsistency does grate on me. Personally, I feel it's difficult to entirely judge either manager. Both have had circumstances and injuries beyond reason. And both have inherited a poor squad and not had the funds to turn that around. Equally, neither manager have always helped themselves with tactics and team selections so I can understand your point of view. I think it is easy to be overly harsh on both given where we are. But this season should be treated with more leniency to both managers. Have people actually considered what was available for our first few games? Or that we probably didn't get the points we deserved. I have been critical of Rooney for his attitude post lockdown and how he got the job. But this is a tough job, especially trying to manage unpaid players. So far this season, due to injury, terrible form and retirement our team has lost near 30 goals from last season, Lawrence, Waghorn and Rooney. CKR is covering Martin. Either Waghorn or Lawrence going missing you could cover, but both? With a squad of our size and financial restrictions? I don't believe either manager was/is in an environment in which they can prosper this season. They have been tasked with dealing with the crap left by previous managers who opted for short term and an owner looking to cut loose. All that with the weight of expectation there is on us in this league. Our key problem after 41 games remains the same as after 11. We don't score enough. If Rooney is here next season, with the backing of an interested owner, then we can look for an identity. But please, let's never try to out Wycombe Wycombe again (A rare game where even the win felt horrible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 18 hours ago, IslandExile said: Fair play. Inconsistency does grate on me. Personally, I feel it's difficult to entirely judge either manager. Both have had circumstances and injuries beyond reason. And both have inherited a poor squad and not had the funds to turn that around. Equally, neither manager have always helped themselves with tactics and team selections so I can understand your point of view. Cocu did spend around £10 million first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said: Cocu did spend around £10 million first season. Ah, the Bielik transfer. We never got to the bottom of whether or not that was initiated by Cocu or whether it was already in the pipeline. Either way, look at our results with Bielik in the team and out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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