Mental health and footballers

[IslandExile]

Footballers are well paid for doing something we all love - playing football.

That does not mean that they are open to abuse. It does not mean that they do not have personal issues. Stresses. Mental health problems.

Twitter is Twitter. But I've seen posts on here discussing Rooney's dropping of Waghorn, in which some people have said things along the lines of "I don't care about Waghorn, he's rubbish anyway, it's time he was called out".

I don't know what behaviour Rooney found unacceptable, so I do not know whether leaving him out was justified. I'm not even talking about whether Rooney should have kept things in-house; that's been discussed on other threads.

What I am saying is that it's not acceptable for people to dismiss any mental health issues that Waghorn is suffering from, merely because he's a well paid footballer or because he misses too many chances.

This treatment is not confined to Waghorn. There have been other derogatory comments made about Jordan Ibe who is known to have issues.

If you want to criticize a player's football ability, that's fine, but please show respect to the human being.

Thanks.

[May Contain Nuts]

You would say that though, you hysterical, attention seeking drama queen, you wimpy keyboard warrior snowflake!

Grown men, real men, don't suffer mental health issues especially not rich ones.

Nor do they feel the stresses and strains of family life, and don't you dare lend them a sympathetic ear, after all they didn't personally give birth to their children.

Everyone's experience of mental health is identical, so if 'normal people' can cope they should be able to too!

[David]

It’s the one year anniversary of lockdown, my theory is that a lot of anger and frustration from that is being vented through keyboards. 

Patience is at an all time low as football, one of our outlets has been taken away whilst at the same time coincides with our worst season for a number of years.

Context is completely lost, we’re seeing all that anger and frustration spew out.

Frustrated myself, but I’ve found stepping away from the internet and social media, just taking the dog out can relieve that. Amazing what a bit of fresh air can do.

[Tyler Durden]

Do you think people are being dismissive of Waghorns mental health issues?

I mean I haven't seen any directly referencing these in conjunction with comments about his performances on the pitch but am happy to be corrected. 

If someone had said paraphrasing your comment I don't care about Waghorn he's rubbish anyway and misses so many chances why is this being dismissive of any mental health issues he may have.

Am a bit lost as usual.

[David]

12 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Do you think people are being dismissive of Waghorns mental health issues?

I mean I haven't seen any directly referencing these in conjunction with comments about his performances on the pitch but am happy to be corrected. 

If someone had said paraphrasing your comment I don't care about Waghorn he's rubbish anyway and misses so many chances why is this being dismissive of any mental health issues he may have.

Am a bit lost as usual.

Not sure if you are asking me or the op, I’ll go ahead and put my thoughts anyway.

I wouldn’t say in general people are being dismissive, when the news broke I saw the odd troll telling him to man up but on a whole it was supportive as it was with Ibe, until we’ve lost a few games and now his wages are being questioned.

Now I’m not saying he or any other player should be wrapped up in cotton wool as such, but we have to remember these players are real people, not just entertainers, no player should have to take any kind of abuse.

I haven’t seen what the OP has, I’m quite selective on who I follow on social media and very rarely step into the hashtags now as there is too much abuse out there.

You kind of have to accept it’s an emotional game that plays a big part in some peoples lives and at times that might slip, few drinks, say something you would regret.

But then you see stuff on say a Thursday dinner, maybe the club have wished them a happy birthday and that’s it, they are tagged in all kinds of stuff and you just think, why, why are you like that?

I watched series 3 of the F1 documentary on Netflix last night, Bottas the Mercedes driver admitted to snapping at one tweet, just got under his skin.

They do see it, it’s not right. The argument will always be well they shouldn’t be on there, but for me that’s just as wrong, they should be free to lead a normal life and use social media if they wish without opening themselves up to abuse of any kind.

[IslandExile]

34 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Do you think people are being dismissive of Waghorns mental health issues?

 

12 minutes ago, David said:

Not sure if you are asking me or the op, I’ll go ahead and put my thoughts anyway.

I'm the OP. I think David answered things better than I could - I've not copied all of his reply for brevity.

Yes, I do think a small minority of people on here - I do not bother with Twitter - dismissed any regard of mental health issues and simply rejoiced in Rooney leaving him out "because he's rubbish anyway". We do not even know the details of what he did; Rooney simply described it as "unacceptable behaviour".

What I would say though is that, sometimes, people - myself included - badly phrase things in order to make a point quickly and so it may be that those posters were not consciously dismissing any issues - "it just came out that way". But then again....

[David]

7 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Yes, I do think a small minority of people on here - I do not bother with Twitter - dismissed any regard of mental health issues

I think for some it’s hard to wrap their head around mental health issues if they have never experienced any themselves.

And that’s totally understandable, you could move this into BAME, as a white male I don’t know how that feels or what the challenges are.

I didn’t speak to my Dad for a number of years, was basically told what would you do if there was a war now and you had to fight for your country, couldn’t just stay inside and say you’re scared to go out.

Men are expected to be these big tough guys that nothing fazes them, but it’s not true and I think in future generations this will change, we’re seeing it now where more men are being open and with the COVID lockdowns this will perhaps accelerate it into becoming more openly discussed and accepted. 

For me though, the focus shouldn’t be on making men feel more comfortable being open about the issues, it should be making it clear freedom of speech does not = freedom of consequences as I feel this would help work towards a number of issues. 

Social media is a great way of communicating, but it’s been left to grow into this uncontrollable beast where it’s become basically a free for all.

[May Contain Nuts]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Do you think people are being dismissive of Waghorns mental health issues?

I mean I haven't seen any directly referencing these in conjunction with comments about his performances on the pitch but am happy to be corrected. 

If someone had said paraphrasing your comment I don't care about Waghorn he's rubbish anyway and misses so many chances why is this being dismissive of any mental health issues he may have.

Am a bit lost as usual.

I don't think people overall are being dismissive of mental health issues as such, just not considering them.

A lot of the reactions to the 'Waghorn Situation' thread were harsh, reactive and lacking in any thought  whatsoever that whatever happened could be either a result of his (publicised) mental health issues, or contribute to them going forward.

I wasn't saying nobody should face criticism just in case they have some issues, I wasn't saying that whatever transpired between Rooney & Waghorn definitely had anything to do with Waghorn's mental health,  but that when we're talking about someone we know has had issues it should at least be considered before automatically jumping to conclusions.

My main post on the thread was an attempt to put forward short hypothesis on how his current situation may have an effect on his performances and his reaction to not even being in the squad, and his manager publicly criticising him, especially when said manager's comments are a little bit hypocritical.

Some people (a select few) chose to be ********* and ridicule and be dismissive of that very idea, either with laughing emojis, claims of attention seeking or other derogatory comments, hence my post on this thread. 

 

[IslandExile]

14 minutes ago, Coconut said:

I don't think people overall are being dismissive of mental health issues as such, just not considering them.

A lot of the reactions to the 'Waghorn Situation' thread were harsh, reactive and lacking in any thought  whatsoever that whatever happened could be either a result of his (publicised) mental health issues, or contribute to them going forward.

I wasn't saying nobody should face criticism just in case they have some issues, I wasn't saying that whatever transpired between Rooney & Waghorn definitely had anything to do with Waghorn's mental health,  but that when we're talking about someone we know has had issues it should at least be considered before automatically jumping to conclusions.

My main post on the thread was an attempt to put forward short hypothesis on how his current situation may have an effect on his performances and his reaction to not even being in the squad, and his manager publicly criticising him, especially when said manager's comments are a little bit hypocritical.

Some people (a select few) chose to be ********* and ridicule and be dismissive of that very idea, either with laughing emojis, claims of attention seeking or other derogatory comments, hence my post on this thread. 

 

Excellent post @Coconut as was your earlier contribution to the 'Waghorn Situation' thread.

[sonofmidnight]

I would think that the vast majority of fans would have every sympathy with the players if they were suffering from depression, ocd, schizophrenia, bipolar or any of a myriad of mental health disorders and to suggest otherwise is quite frankly disingenuous. However until we are fully informed of all the facts people will speculate. I am not aware that recent events pertaining to Waghorn have been linked to mental health problems even if sadly he has suffered from them in the past. As ever, we the fans, are not fully informed and this fuels supposition. 

[Mihangel]

12 hours ago, Coconut said:

I don't think people overall are being dismissive of mental health issues as such, just not considering them.

I'm not so sure, on a thread a few months back, not sure which (Ibe?), there were quite a few talking about people who 'play the game' suggesting that their woes were not so genuine. One in particular (with supporters), who was almost certainly ex forces was implying that mental issues were only acceptable if they were related to PTSD and a war zone. Of course, this is the problem - One person's life changing anxieties can be laughed off by another who believes their issues to be more worthy. Footballers are no different but that's doesn't me that they're above criticism (nor, I suspect, would many of them expect to be so), it's just another thing that should be born in mind when discussing the subject.

In truth, I'm not certain it's fair to discuss this in relation to an individual at all but again, that's football, it's life in a bubble.

[Wolfie]

It's great that mental health is talked about a lot more. I've recently joined a local MH support group because I would like to help others to benefit from experiences I had in overcoming my past issues. That kind of thing just didn't exist previously.

However, I do feel it's becoming a bit of a buzz-phrase and "card" to play for some people, when you see stories online of chavs getting chucked out of ASDA, claiming (under the compo-face photo) that their mental health has been affected.

As awareness has increased, so has a degree of banwagon-jumping by a minority, which sadly increases cynicism toward some (especially those with power and/or wealth) who may be geniuniely suffering.

[BaaLocks]

Why just mental health? Without wanting to turn this into a Chris Martin thread he had his health issues and yet some still felt he should be doing more on the pitch or pushing for more game time. And what about the George Thorne / Lee Morris / Tom Lawrence posters who just give it the 'he's made of glass, get rid'. Illness is illness and it must always be considered alongside all other criteria.

As a football club we play our best XI, after all no one is going to come to us at the end of the season and say 'OK, you played a few that weren't match fit so we'll void your relegation'.

But we should still support our players off the pitch. I think Derby have a pretty good record on this - Sean Barker was supported long after it was clear he wasn't going to be the player he was, I'd suggest the same of George Thorne, for Jordan Ibe I kind of feel the point is not even whether or not he plays football for us but more that the club supports him at this time - even if he never kicks a ball again for us in anger.

As for the OP - be a little careful of false oppositions. Who made the comments that were so challenging, or are you just commenting against an ethereal assumption of what people said? Because one of the biggest challenges of social media and the like is that it pushes us into our own echo chambers and we create in our minds these false enemies that, sometimes, don't exist or are often nowhere near as prevalent or extreme as we might make them out to be. I'm guilty of that, and have been repeatedly over the Brexit / C-19 debates I have been involved in over the years. It's a trap - one we should not fall into.

[Leeds Ram]

I didn't follow the Ibe thread loads although I did post on it. The posts I did see in general seemed respectful, kind and pleasant about the situation rather than anything negative though? Obviously, if people are making derogatory comments about people's mental health then that's not okay and the admins are free to ban/suspend people on here according to the rules. Social media is a different question and it's a  bear pit. You'll get people having a bad day, making misjudged jokes, and the downright cruel on it so whilst social media can be a useful tool for some stuff, these kinds of discussions are not useful on those platforms more often than not. 

I don't think threads on those issues are always the most helpful though, even on more sensitive platforms such as this. We're not aware of his issues and therefore discussing it even sympathetically is simply a guessing game as to the seriousness of it all and actions that should be taken. Mental health difficulties for a lot of people are very real and can be very serious, my own personal difficulties have at times been very serious and affected my life in numerous ways. Other times, people's issues can be a lot more minor and be much closer to reflecting general difficulties of life, bad situations, or our reactions to stressful situations etc. which aren't necessarily mental health difficulties but normal human reactions to difficult situations. Passing those judgements online is next to impossible because we don't know the person, the situation or the background difficulty so beyond being merely supportive there is nothing that can be gained by talking about it. 

 

 

[BIllyD]

Do you have to come out and publicly state you have mental health issues for this thread to apply ?

Just reading thorough the "WR should he come back thread" and I don't know why, but the question popped into my head when reading some of the replies ?

 

[Floppy Sausage]

Twitter is toxic, a playground for kids to abuse grown ups from behind a screen. Everyone knows that, and many people get abused or bullied on there, not just footballers. The way that these social media platforms are currently run, means if you are on there, you are an open target for abuse, especially if you are famous. If people cannot handle that, then they are better restricting their account or keeping away from Twitter completely. From what I have seen, pro footballers only use it to promote themselves anyway, I rarely see any of them actually posting anything “social” on there.

[Floppy Sausage]

On the other hand, a forum like this is going to be more controlled and better moderated, therefore anything below the belt should be easily dealt with. On the other hand, people should be free to discuss players, managers, and so on, and voice their opinions on what they think of those players. They are in the public eye, and people are going to have various opinions on their ability and unfortunately their personal life. But, again, why would players even come on to a forum like this? It is just asking for trouble. They are not stupid, and they know there will be very negative comments, especially given the recent form.

If pro players suffer mental issues, I don’t think a 13 year old from Chadd calling them rubbish on the internet is going to be what causes it.

[Tyler Durden]

On 27/03/2021 at 09:43, Floppy Sausage said:

Twitter is toxic, a playground for kids to abuse grown ups from behind a screen. Everyone knows that, and many people get abused or bullied on there, not just footballers. The way that these social media platforms are currently run, means if you are on there, you are an open target for abuse, especially if you are famous. If people cannot handle that, then they are better restricting their account or keeping away from Twitter completely. From what I have seen, pro footballers only use it to promote themselves anyway, I rarely see any of them actually posting anything “social” on there.

Yer your argument is akin to the one made by some men regards the recent abduction of Sarah Everard - was pretty stupid of her walking alone at night back from home knowing the potential risk she was putting herself into - of course the counter argument you've seen in the news is why should women not feel safe walking alone at night? And why do we live in a country where this is seemed to be acceptable that you have to make allowances for this?

Same goes for your comparison with Twitter, why should anyone avoid the platform knowing that they are going to leave themselves open for abuse when the real issue is why can't the users on there behave in a decent, civilised manner?

[Archied]

On 28/03/2021 at 13:22, Tyler Durden said:

Yer your argument is akin to the one made by some men regards the recent abduction of Sarah Everard - was pretty stupid of her walking alone at night back from home knowing the potential risk she was putting herself into - of course the counter argument you've seen in the news is why should women not feel safe walking alone at night? And why do we live in a country where this is seemed to be acceptable that you have to make allowances for this?

Same goes for your comparison with Twitter, why should anyone avoid the platform knowing that they are going to leave themselves open for abuse when the real issue is why can't the users on there behave in a decent, civilised manner?

It’s not about the streets being safe for women , it’s about them being safe for everyone, we have surrendered our streets over the years and we do not deal firmly enough with the scumbags who make it unsafe to walk at night , sit on a bus , sit on a train , we should not be splitting into smaller groups we should be joining together to make things better and safer for ALL decent people , no matter , gender , race , religion, sexual orientation,

[Archied]

3 hours ago, Archied said:

It’s not about the streets being safe for women , it’s about them being safe for everyone, we have surrendered our streets over the years and we do not deal firmly enough with the scumbags who make it unsafe to walk at night , sit on a bus , sit on a train , we should not be splitting into smaller groups we should be joining together to make things better and safer for ALL decent people , no matter , gender , race , religion, sexual orientation,

Don’t really get the angry face reaction to the post , is it not time ALL decent people stood together in a mass majority and said no more , demanded proper policing , proper sentencing and proper education on treating all people with decency??‍♂️