Derby Managers In Focus (March 2021): From Nigel to Wayne

[Nuwtfly]

As of yesterday, this is how our managers shape up statistically from Nigel Clough to Wayne Rooney (according to Wikipedia): 

 

1) Steve McClaren (1st Spell): P 95 – W 51 – D 22 – L 22 – 54.26%

2) Darren Wassall (Interim): P 18 – W 9 – D 3 – L 6 – 50%

3) Steve McClaren (2nd Spell): P 29 – W 13 – D 7 – L 9 – 44.83%

4) Gary Rowett: P 60 – W 26 – D 18 – L 16 – 43.33%

5) Paul Clement: P 33 – W 14 – D 12 – L 7 – 42.42%

6) Frank Lampard: P 57 – W 24 – D 17 – L 16 – 42.11%

7) Nigel Clough: P 231 – W 76 – D 54 – L 101 – 32.9%

8 ) Phillip Cocu: P 65 – W 21 – D 18 – L 26 – 32.31%

9) Wayne Rooney: P 28 – W 9 – D 7 – L 12 – 32.1%

10) Nigel Pearson: P 14 – W 3 – D 5 – L 6 – 21.43%

 

Plenty to gleam from this. Or nothing, depending on your outlook on life...

[Rammy03]

Neither here nor there, none of them managed to get us out of this league. Although, I put that firmly at the door of Mel Morris and how money has been spent under his ownership.

[nottingram]

It all needs context. If I was ranking the job each manager did Clement would be  comfortably bottom of the pile, maybe aside from Pearson who wasn’t given time, rightly or wrongly. That goes beyond win percentages.

Likewise Clough would be higher because the majority of his tenure was necessary pain. 

The only manager(s) on that list who did a good to great job were Mac 1 and Mac 2, maybe Clough and maybe Wassall, when putting everything in to context, in my opinion.

Shows what a farce it was that Mac was sacked not once, but twice. 

[Nuwtfly]

1 minute ago, nottingram said:

The only manager(s) on that list who did a good to great job were Mac 1 and Mac 2, maybe Clough and maybe Wassall, when putting everything in to context, in my opinion.

I think Wassall arguably did the worst job! That team should never have lost six games - we were one of the better sides in the division at that point with arguably the best squad!

The decision to not replace Clement adequately messed that season right up. Even George Thorne has said as much!

[nottingram]

Just now, Nuwtfly said:

I think Wassall arguably did the worst job! That team should never have lost six games - we were one of the better sides in the division at that point with arguably the best squad!

The decision to not replace Clement adequately messed that season right up. Even George Thorne has said as much!

He took over a team in free fall and was a silly decision (may not have even been his decision, I don’t know) in the play off first leg away from taking us up, imo. We went to Brighton and bossed them, spanked Hull 4-0 playing amazing football. I think people put way too much stock into a stupid draw with Rotherham which wasn’t even Wassall’s fault. The reaction to that game both at the ground and on here was the most pathetic I have ever seen, I think. And over the last few years that is no mean feat!

[JfR]

19 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

As of yesterday, this is how our managers shape up statistically from Nigel Clough to Wayne Rooney (according to Wikipedia): 

 

1) Steve McClaren (1st Spell): P 95 – W 51 – D 22 – L 22 – 54.26%

2) Darren Wassall (Interim): P 18 – W 9 – D 3 – L 6 – 50%

3) Steve McClaren (2nd Spell): P 29 – W 13 – D 7 – L 9 – 44.83%

4) Gary Rowett: P 60 – W 26 – D 18 – L 16 – 43.33%

5) Paul Clement: P 33 – W 14 – D 12 – L 7 – 42.42%

6) Frank Lampard: P 57 – W 24 – D 17 – L 16 – 42.11%

7) Nigel Clough: P 231 – W 76 – D 54 – L 101 – 32.9%

8 ) Phillip Cocu: P 65 – W 21 – D 18 – L 26 – 32.31%

9) Wayne Rooney: P 28 – W 9 – D 7 – L 12 – 32.1%

10) Nigel Pearson: P 14 – W 3 – D 5 – L 6 – 21.43%

 

Plenty to gleam from this. Or nothing, depending on your outlook on life...

As PPG that's:
McClaren 1 - 1.84 (same)
Wassall - 1.67 (same)
Clement - 1.64 (up 2)
Rowett - 1.6 (same)
McClaren 2 - 1.59 (down 2)
Lampard - 1.56 (same)
Cocu - 1.25 (up 1)
Clough - 1.22 (down 1)
Rooney - 1.21 (same)
Pearson - 1 (same)

[DCFC27]

Should have given Pearson more time. We knew what to expect when he took over. I firmly believe given a full season or two he’s have got us straight. 

[Rammy03]

1 minute ago, DCFC27 said:

Should have given Pearson more time. We knew what to expect when he took over. I firmly believe given a full season or two he’s have got us straight. 

It wasn't possible though because he couldn't work with Mel. I don't want to keep blaming Mel but I just think he's made a lot of mistakes and that's the reason we're not in the premier League. 

[SecretDave]

Personally, I'd like to see Wassall get the manager's job. He knows how to get the best out of our young players, and looking at his record, he didn't do too bad when in charge. I'd certainly turn to him if we were relegated. 

[Anon]

7 minutes ago, DCFC27 said:

Should have given Pearson more time. We knew what to expect when he took over. I firmly believe given a full season or two he’s have got us straight. 

The mistake with Pearson was appointing him in the first place. One of the few sensible things we've done was booting him out quickly. What has Pearson achieved since leaving Derby 5 years ago that would make you think he'd have been a success here given enough time?

[DCFC27]

7 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

It wasn't possible though because he couldn't work with Mel. I don't want to keep blaming Mel but I just think he's made a lot of mistakes and that's the reason we're not in the premier League. 

That’s what I mean by we knew what to expect. Clearly Mel hadn’t done he research and found him a perfectly amicable man. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

23 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

I think Wassall arguably did the worst job! That team should never have lost six games - we were one of the better sides in the division at that point with arguably the best squad!

The decision to not replace Clement adequately messed that season right up. Even George Thorne has said as much!

Although, if it weren't for the leg break, we may well have got past Hull and who knows. Wassall got a lot more flack than he deserved (because of how he came in) in my opinion, but at the same time he didn't do that great with what was a strong squad (I agree we should've appionted a decent manager and sort of fudged it with 'arry as "consultant"), kind of in between but I can see why we didn't retain him as manager.

Nigel Pearson I despised at the time, and whilst I still think he was the wrong guy at that point, he wasn't given anything like a fair shot at getting the team be good at what he wanted them to be. Weirdly this season or last I feel he might have been a good appointment to make. Funny old game.

Rowett, actually good, if not great

Clement - was doing OK then managed to totally throw it away somehow, ultimatly, bad.

Clough, in context good overall (he had little to work with) but certainly not great

Lampard - Good but given the players he had, certainly not great - baffled Chelsea wanted him on the strength of his Derby time.

Cocu - I liked him, I liked his ideas, I liked his plan, but ultimatly, his ideas and plan were wrong, so he has to go down as Bad.

McClaren? Very good overall, but can understand each sacking, first time it was more to do with Newcastle than results, but the utter abortion that was the second half of that season was bad. Second time was harsh, but the team had been looking like it was falling apart in the run up to it. It was harsh to sack him second time, but at least we'd actually lined up Rowett to come in.

Wazza - ongoing so can't effectivly rate, but is working with the worst team in ten years and over the last onth or so, managing to mess that up. Stay up? he gets an OK and my blessing for next season, go down and he'll walk anyway.

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by RadioactiveWaste

[BramcoteRam84]

51 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

As of yesterday, this is how our managers shape up statistically from Nigel Clough to Wayne Rooney (according to Wikipedia): 

 

1) Steve McClaren (1st Spell): P 95 – W 51 – D 22 – L 22 – 54.26%

2) Darren Wassall (Interim): P 18 – W 9 – D 3 – L 6 – 50%

3) Steve McClaren (2nd Spell): P 29 – W 13 – D 7 – L 9 – 44.83%

4) Gary Rowett: P 60 – W 26 – D 18 – L 16 – 43.33%

5) Paul Clement: P 33 – W 14 – D 12 – L 7 – 42.42%

6) Frank Lampard: P 57 – W 24 – D 17 – L 16 – 42.11%

7) Nigel Clough: P 231 – W 76 – D 54 – L 101 – 32.9%

8 ) Phillip Cocu: P 65 – W 21 – D 18 – L 26 – 32.31%

9) Wayne Rooney: P 28 – W 9 – D 7 – L 12 – 32.1%

10) Nigel Pearson: P 14 – W 3 – D 5 – L 6 – 21.43%

 

Plenty to gleam from this. Or nothing, depending on your outlook on life...

If Rooney has managed for 28 games then it must include the 2 games where he wasn’t sole manager (one of those games he played in!!) and the FA Cup game where while he was in charge at the club at the time, Pat Lyons took charge. Derby lost all three so it makes quite a difference.

With 25 games where Rooney has taken sole charge his record is W9 D7 L9, win % of 36% and PPG of 1.36. Over 46 games that would work out as 62.56 points(63 points rounded up). Still 8 games to improve on or worsen those stats. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by BramcoteRam84

[Nuwtfly]

Just now, BramcoteRam84 said:

If Rooney has managed for 28 games then it must include the 2 games where he wasn’t sole manager (one of those games he played in!!) and the FA Cup game where while he was in charge at the club at the time, Pat Lyons took charge. Derby lost all three so it makes quite a difference.

With 25 games where Rooney has taken sole charge his record is W9 D7 L9, win % of 36% and PPG of 1.36. Over 46 games that would work out as 62.56 points(63 points rounded up). Still 8 games to improve on or worse those stats. 

You’ll have to take that one up with Wikipedia!

Seeing as he was part of the four-man management team for the games he played in (still can’t believe he played himself personally) I think we actually should count those games anyway!

[Jimbo Ram]

24 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Although, if it weren't for the leg break, we may well have got past Hull and who knows. Wassall got a lot more flack than he deserved (because of how he came in) in my opinion, but at the same time he didn't do that great with what was a strong squad (I agree we should've appionted a decent manager and sort of fudged it with 'arry as "consultant"), kind of in between but I can see why we didn't retain him as manager.

Nigel Pearson I despised at the time, and whilst I still think he was the wrong guy at that point, he wasn't given anything like a fair shot at getting the team be good at what he wanted them to be. Weirdly this season or last I feel he might have been a good appointment to make. Funny old game.

Rowett, actually good, if not great

Clement - was doing OK then managed to totally throw it away somehow, ultimatly, bad.

Clough, in context good overall (he had little to work with) but certainly not great

Lampard - Good but given the players he had, certainly not great - baffled Chelsea wanted him on the strength of his Derby time.

Cocu - I liked him, I liked his ideas, I liked his plan, but ultimatly, his ideas and plan were wrong, so he has to go down as Bad.

McClaren? Very good overall, but can understand each sacking, first time it was more to do with Newcastle than results, but the utter abortion that was the second half of that season was bad. Second time was harsh, but the team had been looking like it was falling apart in the run up to it. It was harsh to sack him second time, but at least we'd actually lined up Rowett to come in.

Wazza - ongoing so can't effectivly rate, but is working with the worst team in ten years and over the last onth or so, managing to mess that up. Stay up? he gets an OK and my blessing for next season, go down and he'll walk anyway.

 

Sacking to do with Newcastle ? He turned them down, committed to Derby....I suppose he could have written this in blood to be fair....consequently he was right to be sacked ?

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 minute ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Sacking to do with Newcastle ? He turned them down, committed to Derby....I suppose he could have written this in blood to be fair....consequently he was right to be sacked ?

Granted we should've hung on a month and let Newcastle pay us.

[Jimbo Ram]

48 minutes ago, nottingram said:

He took over a team in free fall and was a silly decision (may not have even been his decision, I don’t know) in the play off first leg away from taking us up, imo. We went to Brighton and bossed them, spanked Hull 4-0 playing amazing football. I think people put way too much stock into a stupid draw with Rotherham which wasn’t even Wassall’s fault. The reaction to that game both at the ground and on here was the most pathetic I have ever seen, I think. And over the last few years that is no mean feat!

The Brighton play off win was under Steve Mac, not Wassall...

[Jimbo Ram]

4 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Granted we should've hung on a month and let Newcastle pay us.

Or stopped the nonsense and let him continue the great job he was doing, being successful and football that was a joy to watch...all seems such a long time ago....

[JfR]

9 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

You’ll have to take that one up with Wikipedia!

Seeing as he was part of the four-man management team for the games he played in (still can’t believe he played himself personally) I think we actually should count those games anyway!

I had a look at what it would be without the Chorley game in the cup, which Wikipedia credits Rooney as being in charge for, but including the 4-man team games, and it comes out at 1.26 for PPG.

One thing I was interested in was the gap between Rooney's PPG with Bielik vs. without Bielik in the team, and how this compares to other managers' results with and without key players.
Solely looking at league games, Rooney's PPG w/ Bielik is 1.75 but drops drastically to a 0.87 without him.
However, this is a similar drop off in terms of PPG to McClaren's in his first spell as manager in games w/ Martin (1.97) vs. games w/o Martin (1.08). Rooney's gap is a 0.88 PPG drop, where McClaren's is a 0.89 PPG drop.
Interestingly, Rooney's PPG w/ Bielik is very close to Lampard's w/ Mount (1.74), but Lampard seemed to manage to deal with the loss of Mount more effectively than Rooney has managed without Bielik or McClaren managed without Martin (1.18 w/o Mount), a drop of 0.56 PPG.

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, JfR said:

I had a look at what it would be without the Chorley game in the cup, which Wikipedia credits Rooney as being in charge for, but including the 4-man team games, and it comes out at 1.26 for PPG.

One thing I was interested in was the gap between Rooney's PPG with Bielik vs. without Bielik in the team, and how this compares to other managers' results with and without key players.
Solely looking at league games, Rooney's PPG w/ Bielik is 1.75 but drops drastically to a 0.87 without him.
However, this is a similar drop off in terms of PPG to McClaren's in his first spell as manager in games w/ Martin (1.97) vs. games w/o Martin (1.08). Rooney's gap is a 0.88 PPG drop, where McClaren's is a 0.89 PPG drop.
Interestingly, Rooney's PPG w/ Bielik is very close to Lampard's w/ Mount (1.74), but Lampard seemed to manage to deal with the loss of Mount more effectively than Rooney has managed without Bielik or McClaren managed without Martin (1.18 w/o Mount), a drop of 0.56 PPG.

Great little synopsis but can you provide these stats in a bit more detail please ?