Mel had a dream

[cannable]

19 minutes ago, Beetroot said:

A bit harsh on Johnson to bracket him with Anya, Blackman, Butterfield and Et Al. 

Johnson is the worst of the lot! All you had to do was watch him once in that Norwich side to see that he couldn’t play ‘football’. Even his ‘goodbye’ article from the Norwich fans described him as a “sloppy, pass fumbler” and that "...the evidence was that in a midfield full of ball-players and deft touches, Johnson was a pug among greyhounds."

So what do we do? We find out he’s available less than 24 hours before the transfer deadline. No scouting, no great thoughts about how he fits into the team and we make him our second record breaking transfer of that HOUR. 

Just because down the line we found a use for him doesn't mean he was a good signing. 

[cannable]

11 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

He was 6 million quid over 5 years ago now....what's that in football inflation prices nowadays. And another free transfer to get rid.

Pre-Neymar as well, which is the transfer which sent football completely mental.

That £25,000,000 was 2021’s £66,000,000.

[LittleEatonRam]

On 21/03/2021 at 19:54, EulogyForEvolution said:

I have no doubt that he had the right intentions. He put his hand in his pocket for us many times.

Whichever way you look at it, though, we are in a far worse position than we were when he bought the club. We were on the brink of the Premier League when he came in. Now we're on the brink of relegation to League One in a few short years. The acquisition of players in that time has been nothing short of disastrous. 

When you think that Nigel Clough managed to find and bring in Bryson, Martin, Ward, Russell, Keogh, Buxton and Forsyth for less than we spent on Jacob Butterfield shortly afterwards tells you everything you need to know.  

We paid twice as much for Bradley Johnson as we brought in selling Will Hughes. It is no way to run a club and we are suffering for it. 

I think I'm right when I calculated once that the team which beat Forest 5-0 in 2014 cost £2.5m. And then look what we did afterwards.

I think MM has always tried to do his best by the club, and he put his own money in (which never seems to elicite the kind of gratitude it deserves from fans who would probably never throw their own money away on the club if they were millionaires), but he fell into the trap of thinking that writing large cheques would quickly be enough to take us up. Quite a few shrewd businessmen seem to make completely irrational decisions when they take over football clubs, and Mel Morris is just another example of that.

[Parsnip]

14 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

He was 6 million quid 

Kinell ?. Anyway I'm not saying he was a good value signing - just better than the other 4 shockers.

3 minutes ago, cannable said:

Johnson is the worst of the lot! 

That's mad that.

[cannable]

1 minute ago, Beetroot said:

That's mad that.

What, you’re gonna ignore everything else I said? 

Blackman wasn’t far off, we already had three other left-footed wingers and Blackman was most suited to the role Ince already occupied BUT at least Clement had already worked with him and knew what he was getting.

Butterfield raised concerns in his first interview saying; “I want to be the player making the most passes in the game”. Well that’s not happening in a Derby team with Thorne in it. At least he was a tidy footballer though and could score goals from midfield. 

Anya, despite being our worst money to value signing ever, was probably the one which made the most sense! Pearson was trying to mould us into a 4-4-2 side and I could see how Anya would fit into the Lloyd Dyer role. He was initially a victim to a poor managerial appointment and then was comfortable just sitting on his Derby contract. 

Johnson was a thoughtless signing based totally on opportunity. His turnaround was a testament to him and not his recruitment.

[Parsnip]

45 minutes ago, cannable said:

What, you’re gonna ignore everything else I said? 

Yeah pretty much. Anything over a sentence long and I tend to skim read. ADHD or summat.

Judging by how long your subsequent post is I will concede that you've put far more thought into it than me and that Johnson is most likely the worst pound for pound or however you've worked it out.

If I had to sign any of those 5 again though I'd still take Bitey Johnson.

[cannable]

30 minutes ago, Beetroot said:

Yeah pretty much. Anything over a sentence long and I tend to skim read. ADHD or summat.

Judging by how long your subsequent post is I will concede that you've put far more thought into it than me and that Johnson is most likely the worst pound for pound or however you've worked it out.

If I had to sign any of those 5 again though I'd still take Bitey Johnson.

You’re not kidding! ?

[RamNut]

Despite good intentions...

7 years of reckless decision making and crisis management which ultimately delivered a rapid decline both on and off the pitch. 
it feels like we entrusted the keys to the Ferrari to the village idiot, with predictable results.

 

[RedSox]

Hinsdight is such a wonderful gift. 

With access to the kind of money we had and trusting the recruitment team knew what they were doing, despite my modest intellect and experience of building businesses, I can't say I'd have done any different than to write the cheques based on the recommendations of managers & recruitment teams.

It's so easy to look back at signings and lay blame at Mel's door.  There is a premise in business that the likes of Richard Branson subscribe to, saying that you empower people to make thier own decisions and learn from any resulting mistakes.  It may well be that this was Mel's error - trusting people to make the right decisions on recruitment and just perhaps, they have let him down.

It's too easy to blame an exiting owner for past mistakes and without real inside knowledge, none of us can really be certain what happened.  Maybe he was too personally and emotionally tied in to the mission of getting us promotion, to be ruthlessly objective.  I doubt I would be able to avoid being sucked into the dream of my home town club getting to 'the promised land'.  Yes, he made mistakes and that has hurt us all - him included, let's not forget that.

Of course, for those of you who have never made a mistake in life, have at it!  I can see why you may feel that he's brought this on himself and is the primary cause of our demise.  

For me, I will always respect what Mel tried to do for the club.  In some areas, we've made massive strides.  In the key 'goal' of promotion, yes we failed.  That's life.  We're still here and in the cliched parlance, we go again (next year).  

 

[Tyler Durden]

4 hours ago, RedSox said:

Hinsdight is such a wonderful gift. 

With access to the kind of money we had and trusting the recruitment team knew what they were doing, despite my modest intellect and experience of building businesses, I can't say I'd have done any different than to write the cheques based on the recommendations of managers & recruitment teams.

It's so easy to look back at signings and lay blame at Mel's door.  There is a premise in business that the likes of Richard Branson subscribe to, saying that you empower people to make thier own decisions and learn from any resulting mistakes.  It may well be that this was Mel's error - trusting people to make the right decisions on recruitment and just perhaps, they have let him down.

It's too easy to blame an exiting owner for past mistakes and without real inside knowledge, none of us can really be certain what happened.  Maybe he was too personally and emotionally tied in to the mission of getting us promotion, to be ruthlessly objective.  I doubt I would be able to avoid being sucked into the dream of my home town club getting to 'the promised land'.  Yes, he made mistakes and that has hurt us all - him included, let's not forget that.

Of course, for those of you who have never made a mistake in life, have at it!  I can see why you may feel that he's brought this on himself and is the primary cause of our demise.  

For me, I will always respect what Mel tried to do for the club.  In some areas, we've made massive strides.  In the key 'goal' of promotion, yes we failed.  That's life.  We're still here and in the cliched parlance, we go again (next year).  

 

You smooth over a lot of Morris regime in your precis of his time in charge of the club. Absolutely agree that the person whose never made a mistake in business can cast the first stone it's however when you've made a catalogue of poor business judgements then quite rightly your acumen comes under close scrutiny.

We are still here absolutely, but again you totally underplay the state Morris will have left us in - no clarity what league we will be playing in this year, do not own the ground, totally green novice manager (again) who has a long way to prove anyone whether he is cut out for football management, totally threadbare imbalanced squad with again several large valued recruits set to leave for nothing at the end of the season, roundly hated by the EFL and other clubs for our attempts to circumnavigate the FFP rules due our own failings and so on.

We've regressed quite considerably under Morris' tenure and you can quote Samuel Johnson all you like but it doesn't make any mitigation for the car crash that Morris has overseen. 

[RamNut]

5 hours ago, RedSox said:

Hinsdight ?is such a wonderful gift. 

With access to the kind of money we had and trusting the recruitment team knew what they were doing, despite my modest intellect and experience of building businesses, I can't say I'd have done any different than to write the cheques based on the recommendations of managers & recruitment teams.

It’s not hindsight though.

Any business has to have a financial plan that they stick to. Mel may have been able to underwrite the losses but financial discipline went right out of the window. Buying 21-22 year old george Thorne at @2.5-3m - yes. Buying 28 year old Bradley Johnson for 6m? Spending £20m in two months? And another 5m in January? And then sacking the manager on 8th feb. 
the majority of signings all came from wasserman agency so the recruitment process might seem little more than opening their brochure.

Malone, Evans, Waghorn, Andy king, weimann, butterfield, Johnson, carson, blackman....

 

[Rammy03]

15 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

What annoys me the most is the alleged retorts on here when we pissed money up the wall on Johnson, Anya, Blackman, Butterfield et al with well you weren't complaining when we signed then were you.....well I said as long as we can afford them then I doing give a monkey's...history has dictated that clearly we couldn't

It doesn't matter that we weren't complaining when we signed them. Every football fan likes to see their team spend money on big players. It's exciting. It's not our job to make the decisions. The recruitment team are responsible for finding players that will improve the team do well for the football club. They have failed.

[Malagaram]

56 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

You smooth over a lot of Morris regime in your precis of his time in charge of the club. Absolutely agree that the person whose never made a mistake in business can cast the first stone it's however when you've made a catalogue of poor business judgements then quite rightly your acumen comes under close scrutiny.

We are still here absolutely, but again you totally underplay the state Morris will have left us in - no clarity what league we will be playing in this year, do not own the ground, totally green novice manager (again) who has a long way to prove anyone whether he is cut out for football management, totally threadbare imbalanced squad with again several large valued recruits set to leave for nothing at the end of the season, roundly hated by the EFL and other clubs for our attempts to circumnavigate the FFP rules due our own failings and so on.

We've regressed quite considerably under Morris' tenure and you can quote Samuel Johnson all you like but it doesn't make any mitigation for the car crash that Morris has overseen. 

Was that the Keogh car crash !

[Ramarena]

I think Mel had good intentions and can’t question the funds he’s put into the club.

That said I’ve been concerned with the celebrity culture at the club. We’ve signed then appointed Rooney and Lampard in recent seasons, you can even count Cocu in that as he’s part of footballing royalty in Barca. 

I do wonder if it’s ego driven. The celeb obsession, the big money signings, poo housing the finances, the special media appearances, etc, etc.

Its a shame it’s all led us to where we are now, I’m sure it hurts Mel and I’m sure he will hate to see us in the position we find ourselves.

Sadly things look fairly bleak for the next few seasons. We have a rookie manager who’s struggling. A squad in need of investment during a time of financial trouble. And an owner looking for the exit and seemingly attracting potentially problematic bidders.

Things can change quickly in football but at the moment it’s not good!

[Rammy03]

17 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

I think Mel had good intentions and can’t question the funds he’s put into the club.

That said I’ve been concerned with the celebrity culture at the club. We’ve signed then appointed Rooney and Lampard in recent seasons, you can even count Cocu in that as he’s part of footballing royalty in Barca. 

I do wonder if it’s ego driven. The celeb obsession, the big money signings, poo housing the finances, the special media appearances, etc, etc.

Appreciate the money he has put in but there's a lot more to running a football club than that. Like a lot of owners, he didn't quite understand what he was getting himself into. 

[SillyBilly]

7 hours ago, RedSox said:

Hinsdight is such a wonderful gift. 

With access to the kind of money we had and trusting the recruitment team knew what they were doing, despite my modest intellect and experience of building businesses, I can't say I'd have done any different than to write the cheques based on the recommendations of managers & recruitment teams.

It's so easy to look back at signings and lay blame at Mel's door.  There is a premise in business that the likes of Richard Branson subscribe to, saying that you empower people to make thier own decisions and learn from any resulting mistakes.  It may well be that this was Mel's error - trusting people to make the right decisions on recruitment and just perhaps, they have let him down.

It's too easy to blame an exiting owner for past mistakes and without real inside knowledge, none of us can really be certain what happened.  Maybe he was too personally and emotionally tied in to the mission of getting us promotion, to be ruthlessly objective.  I doubt I would be able to avoid being sucked into the dream of my home town club getting to 'the promised land'.  Yes, he made mistakes and that has hurt us all - him included, let's not forget that.

Of course, for those of you who have never made a mistake in life, have at it!  I can see why you may feel that he's brought this on himself and is the primary cause of our demise.  

For me, I will always respect what Mel tried to do for the club.  In some areas, we've made massive strides.  In the key 'goal' of promotion, yes we failed.  That's life.  We're still here and in the cliched parlance, we go again (next year).  

 

The court battle with Rush was a big sign of chaos management in my view, we'll never know the ins and outs of course but the whole affair is best described as "bizarre" and that is not complimentary. I like Mel personally and my assessment is only "it is what it is" on the review of his tenure but I've not bracketed him as a solid businessman from what I've seen at Derby. How could you? Reads as it looks: a beneficiary of a crazy valuation where you catch a fad and get someone to part with silly money and in doing so seal a fortune beyond comprehension. While someone like Gadsby probably has a "0" less on his bank balance I'd be inclined to believe these types would have ran the club better, running boring and bland businesses that require strong management.

[derby8]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

You smooth over a lot of Morris regime in your precis of his time in charge of the club. Absolutely agree that the person whose never made a mistake in business can cast the first stone it's however when you've made a catalogue of poor business judgements then quite rightly your acumen comes under close scrutiny.

We are still here absolutely, but again you totally underplay the state Morris will have left us in - no clarity what league we will be playing in this year, do not own the ground, totally green novice manager (again) who has a long way to prove anyone whether he is cut out for football management, totally threadbare imbalanced squad with again several large valued recruits set to leave for nothing at the end of the season, roundly hated by the EFL and other clubs for our attempts to circumnavigate the FFP rules due our own failings and so on.

We've regressed quite considerably under Morris' tenure and you can quote Samuel Johnson all you like but it doesn't make any mitigation for the car crash that Morris has overseen. 

Your middle para sums up a lot of the problems. A new owner would be well advised to link up the club and the stadium again and refuse to buy the club without the stadium. Need to own the stadium to take forward non football activites to help achieve a financially sustainable club. Refuse to listen to the sometimes persuasive arguments that owning the stadium not a necessity.

[hintonsboots]

12 minutes ago, derby8 said:

Your middle para sums up a lot of the problems. A new owner would be well advised to link up the club and the stadium again and refuse to buy the club without the stadium. Need to own the stadium to take forward non football activites to help achieve a financially sustainable club. Refuse to listen to the sometimes persuasive arguments that owning the stadium not a necessity.

We are in a similar position to 2006 , prior to the Gadsby led consortium takeover. Time for Gad2 ????

 

After securing the takeover of the club, Gadsby and his consortium set about hiring a manager who could rebuild the Derby squad, which at the end of a disappointing season had only one recognised striker, in the form of Paul Peschisolido. After a decision-making process which took some time, former Preston North End manager, Billy Davies was installed as the Ram's new manager. The consortium managed to clear a significant proportion of the club's debts, which had reportedly risen to an estimated £52 million, as well as restoring ownership of Pride Park Stadium to the club. As a result, Davies was allowed a respectable transfer budget, and Steve Howard was Derby's first £1 million signing since 2000

[derby8]

3 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

We are in a similar position to 2006 , prior to the Gadsby led consortium takeover. Time for Gad2 ????

 

After securing the takeover of the club, Gadsby and his consortium set about hiring a manager who could rebuild the Derby squad, which at the end of a disappointing season had only one recognised striker, in the form of Paul Peschisolido. After a decision-making process which took some time, former Preston North End manager, Billy Davies was installed as the Ram's new manager. The consortium managed to clear a significant proportion of the club's debts, which had reportedly risen to an estimated £52 million, as well as restoring ownership of Pride Park Stadium to the club. As a result, Davies was allowed a respectable transfer budget, and Steve Howard was Derby's first £1 million signing since 2000

A lot to be said for that or something similar. Both the stadium and training ground are reasonably modern and give Derby far fewer problems than many other clubs going forward. Concentrate on the team, catch up with any backlog maintenance on the stadium, inc the pitch, and think about future developments including both overall capacity, in due course, and ancillary activites.

[Rev]

You can defend or attack Mel as you wish, but it's not necessary.

Just ask yourself simple questions that apply since his takeover, and answer them honestly.

Is the squad better, yes or no?

Is our league position better, yes or no?

Is our financial position better, yes or no?

Do we still own the tangible assets we did, yes or no?

Answer those four simple questions, and then ask has Mel been good for the club, yes or no?