El DerbyCo

[ThePrisoner]

2 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

I thought I read yesterday that it happened this way round, not sure if it was Rob Dorsett??????

“It's emerged Alonso first made a bid to buy Derby nine months ago, long before current owner Mel Morris sanctioned a takeover deal with Alonso's rival, Sheikh Khaled and Derventio Holdings; that takeover collapsed last month.”

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11696/12269676/Derby-takeover-ex-real-madrid-president-ramon-calderon-helped-advise-erik-alonso

[Rampage]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/gbe-criteria/gbe-mens-players-criteria-jan-2021.ashx

Turns out any player we look to sign gets an automatic 10 points. This table shows points based on the buying club, whereas I initially thought it meant where the player is being bought from. The English Championship is Band 2 (10 points). This means Dursun would be granted a work permit.

Brilliant GofC

[Topram]

17 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

There’s certainly things of concern surrounding this takeover.

One that stands out for me is, why is Alonso such a good option now after Mel snubbed him to go with the Sheikh?

If it goes through we’ll all just have to take him as we find him, there may be some unpalatable stuff on the politics side, but we don’t really know his thoughts on this and we don’t really know what our previous owners political inclinations have been.

One positive is that he had a bust up with Chansiri over the appointment of Pulis, with Alonso wanting Paul Cook instead.

This at least suggest some knowledge and understanding of this level of the game and the type of manager he would be inclined to appoint!

Mel probably thought what we all thought that the sheikh was a billionaire and related to the city owners and we could potentially be the new Man City which was stupid of him and us for believing something good was actually going on ?

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

Found it.....sorry for double quoting

 

 

7 minutes ago, ThePrisoner said:

“It's emerged Alonso first made a bid to buy Derby nine months ago, long before current owner Mel Morris sanctioned a takeover deal with Alonso's rival, Sheikh Khaled and Derventio Holdings; that takeover collapsed last month.”

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11696/12269676/Derby-takeover-ex-real-madrid-president-ramon-calderon-helped-advise-erik-alonso

Talks with the Sheikh started 13 months ago, 4 months before a bid from Alonso.

[Ramarena]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

 

Talks with the Sheikh started 13 months ago, 4 months before a bid from Alonso.

Ah ok didn’t realise the timeline on the sheikh talks were so long. The Dorsett tweet is pretty misleading then

[Leeds Ram]

5 hours ago, cheron85 said:

You've obviously made your mind up already - Based on twitter speculation, someone else's feud and a bit of random speculation - So it's a bit pointless debating it with you

I'm as cynical as they come - I pull apart everything people say/do to try and see all angles - And I have no great love for this guy because he's just some random with access to some money - But I'm at least willing to examine all sides of the thing - You seem to be using the most tenuous of threads to support your dislike of the dude from square one rather than examining the sources you use for evidence and giving the guy a fair crack of the whip

It's literally his own tweets on the political stuff but whatever. 

I'm trying to look for the positives that outweigh the red flags (the lack of personal funds, the firing, the fans of the club he was involved with being happy he's left them alone, the shell companies, the unknown investors, the fact he's mates with Matt Southall) but I'm honestly struggling to find any apart from a press release and a tweet. If Sky are correct and he's seeking to recoup investment through promotion to the premiership that's just another giant red flag tbh. 

All you've come up with is that his dad had an as of yet unknown position on the board of Madrid and his families lawyer is Calderon as evidence that this will all be grand... Well I'm sorry but I don't really find that reassuring. Give the calamity of the previous takeover it's perfectly natural to be sceptical about the ownership until they actually tell us something concrete. 

[Geoff Parkstone]

32 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Why can’t people get their head around the stadium situation! It was an illusion. It was still part of the club! It’s like taking a tenner out of your money pocket and stashing it in a different pocket (to pay for a taxi) ! It’s still there. The fact it was “security” for a loan makes no difference. 

in practice, perhaps its part of "the club" as more widely defined.  In legal terms its not.  The security / charge for the MSD loan was attached to every asset in each company in the wider group, fixed and floating.  However in legal terms ts perfectly possible to sell the club and not the ground and vica versa

 

 

[Spanish]

8 minutes ago, Geoff Parkstone said:

in practice, perhaps its part of "the club" as more widely defined.  In legal terms its not.  The security / charge for the MSD loan was attached to every asset in each company in the wider group, fixed and floating.  However in legal terms ts perfectly possible to sell the club and not the ground and vica versa

 

 

if it was anything other we would be 12 points further behind.  I don't understand why some just ignore the basic concept of separate legal identity

[Kernow]

1 hour ago, Ramarena said:

There’s certainly things of concern surrounding this takeover.

One that stands out for me is, why is Alonso such a good option now after Mel snubbed him to go with the Sheikh?

If it goes through we’ll all just have to take him as we find him, there may be some unpalatable stuff on the politics side, but we don’t really know his thoughts on this and we don’t really know what our previous owners political inclinations have been.

One positive is that he had a bust up with Chansiri over the appointment of Pulis, with Alonso wanting Paul Cook instead.

This at least suggest some knowledge and understanding of this level of the game and the type of manager he would be inclined to appoint!

It's guesswork, but perhaps the price offered was one reason.

The Sheik could have offered £20mil or £200mil, if he doesn't have the money and/or didn't have the intention to actually spend that figure, he could have bid whatever he liked.

Alonso was reported to have bid £30mil for Sheffield Wednesday, which is half of the £60mil that Mel reportedly accepted from the Sheik. I'm not saying that's what he has also bid for us, but if he values Weds at 30, I doubt we're worth twice that. 

[May Contain Nuts]

59 minutes ago, Topram said:

Mel probably thought what we all thought that the sheikh was a billionaire and related to the city owners and we could potentially be the new Man City

Speak for yourself!

[Leeds Ram]

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/news/erik-alonso-mystery-sheffield-wednesday-19798433

[CornwallRam]

21 minutes ago, Kernow said:

It's guesswork, but perhaps the price offered was one reason.

The Sheik could have offered £20mil or £200mil, if he doesn't have the money and/or didn't have the intention to actually spend that figure, he could have bid whatever he liked.

Alonso was reported to have bid £30mil for Sheffield Wednesday, which is half of the £60mil that Mel reportedly accepted from the Sheik. I'm not saying that's what he has also bid for us, but if he values Weds at 30, I doubt we're worth twice that. 

I'm led to believe that the agreement with BZI was something like £15m to Mel, an agreement to take over the £15m debt to MSD and proof of having £25m to fund the club for next season and £15m for the season after. Mel just needs out and has written off the vast majority of his investment. Obviously some more funds were put in over the Christmas period, so there might be a larger loan, but I doubt that the deal would require more than £20m upfront and the ability to service the MSD loan.

Someone with ready access to £30m and the ability to show further backing should be able to secure a deal if the EFL approve.

 

[Spanish]

24 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I'm led to believe that the agreement with BZI was something like £15m to Mel, an agreement to take over the £15m debt to MSD and proof of having £25m to fund the club for next season and £15m for the season after. Mel just needs out and has written off the vast majority of his investment. Obviously some more funds were put in over the Christmas period, so there might be a larger loan, but I doubt that the deal would require more than £20m upfront and the ability to service the MSD loan.

Someone with ready access to £30m and the ability to show further backing should be able to secure a deal if the EFL approve.

 

any idea as to the fate of PP?

[Geoff Parkstone]

25 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I'm led to believe that the agreement with BZI was something like £15m to Mel, an agreement to take over the £15m debt to MSD and proof of having £25m to fund the club for next season and £15m for the season after. Mel just needs out and has written off the vast majority of his investment. Obviously some more funds were put in over the Christmas period, so there might be a larger loan, but I doubt that the deal would require more than £20m upfront and the ability to service the MSD loan.

Someone with ready access to £30m and the ability to show further backing should be able to secure a deal if the EFL approve.

 

So it would have meant Mel retained the ground............

[Carnero]

https://www.2playbook.com/clubes/erik-alonso-operacion-100-millones-con-hijo-gran-logrones-tomo-Derby-county_3121_102_amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

This article suggests NLS Ltd will own the club, the stadium & the training ground.

[Geoff Parkstone]

12 minutes ago, Geoff Parkstone said:

So it would have meant Mel retained the ground............

Still I suppose its better than playing in a council ground!

 

IF this is the basis for the Spandonesian deal then:

Separation of the asset from the club means no more financing can be secured against it, which seriously cramps the clubs ability to borrow.  No more revenue from other activities such as concerts or other sports.

We started the Morris tenure with a pretty much paid off ground, with a small mortgage and mired in footballing mediocrity.  We end it with no ground, still in football mediocrity, but still alive.  Was the adventure worth it?

 

[rammieib]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Confusing wording if so

Not confusing for anyone else.

[Kernow]

1 hour ago, CornwallRam said:

I'm led to believe that the agreement with BZI was something like £15m to Mel, an agreement to take over the £15m debt to MSD and proof of having £25m to fund the club for next season and £15m for the season after. Mel just needs out and has written off the vast majority of his investment. Obviously some more funds were put in over the Christmas period, so there might be a larger loan, but I doubt that the deal would require more than £20m upfront and the ability to service the MSD loan.

Someone with ready access to £30m and the ability to show further backing should be able to secure a deal if the EFL approve.

 

That's fair enough, I hadn't seen a breakdown of where the money actually goes but that makes sense.

It was just a potential reason as to why the Sheik's bid was 'preferred' over Alonso's, without actually meaning that Morris found the Sheik more credible, as if that's the case it would be a worry.

[Rambalin]

1 hour ago, CornwallRam said:

I'm led to believe that the agreement with BZI was something like £15m to Mel, an agreement to take over the £15m debt to MSD and proof of having £25m to fund the club for next season and £15m for the season after. Mel just needs out and has written off the vast majority of his investment. Obviously some more funds were put in over the Christmas period, so there might be a larger loan, but I doubt that the deal would require more than £20m upfront and the ability to service the MSD loan.

Someone with ready access to £30m and the ability to show further backing should be able to secure a deal if the EFL approve.

 

I read somewhere the purchase price agreed with Alonso is £50m plus funding  for the next two seasons. Will see if I can find where I read it. 

[RamNut]

3 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

Why can’t people get their head around the stadium situation! It was an illusion. It was still part of the club! It’s like taking a tenner out of your money pocket and stashing it in a different pocket (to pay for a taxi) ! It’s still there. The fact it was “security” for a loan makes no difference. 

.