Derby no longer taking the knee before matches

[David]

Derby County’s players and staff have confirmed, unanimously, that they will no longer take a knee before matches.

Full statement: https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2021/03/Derby-county-update-taking-a-knee-before-matches

[Pearl Ram]

No objections from me although if they carried on doing it til the end of the season, I wouldn’t have minded that either. I think it’s something that has to stop sometime as it’s impact would diminish.

[Rammy03]

This was very powerful at the start but that impact has diluted. I think it has run its course and that was always going to happen eventually.

[Tyler Durden]

Correct decision. Individuals should be able to do things of their own volition without feeling pressured to conform but also not feel that they then have to justify their reasons afterwards. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Before anyone starts comparing this to the Millwall incident (I hope they don't), the difference between disagreeing with the knee and actively booing it is like the difference between thinking someone who has just died was a bit of a nob and turning up at the funeral and heckling the family.

[rammieib]

Impact has already diminished sadly so it has no objection from me. I also hope that at the end of this season, it stops.

Social media sites need to do substantially more to stop it and to make the people who are racist aware to the authorities.

Proper Punishments need to be given to anyone being found guilty of racism, not a slap on the wrist.

Clubs (although most probably do in fairness) should give lifetime bans to fans and their names and details given to all clubs in the country so a common stance is taken everywhere. 
 

Finally, the club needs a proper way to identify racist fans and provide a safe and free way to report it. Again, there probably is, but actually really publicise how you can do it.

[David]

9 minutes ago, Pearl Ram said:

I think it’s something that has to stop sometime as it’s impact would diminish.

Agreed. 

If you look at the number of recent cases of racial abuse online in football, it's difficult to say it's even had a positive impact.

It's time social media sites stepped up and took more action, Facebook's recent statement about having a strike system before a permanent ban as everybody deserves a second chance is ludicrous.

There needs to be a zero tolerance approach and I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I feel ID should be required now which social media companies have to release to the Police instantly on request.

Start banning households, so when little Timmy wants to call a footballer the N word online, his sister and parents accounts are also removed. 

There would need to be some application process to prove that you have moved into X house that is blacklisted, but you would hope in time that the message would get across and it would eliminate the issue online.

It's easy to change an IP and email address, less easy to change your home address without identification.

As I say, this won't be popular but isn't it time to say enough is enough and show that.

[Sith Happens]

2 minutes ago, David said:

Agreed. 

If you look at the number of recent cases of racial abuse online in football, it's difficult to say it's even had a positive impact.

It's time social media sites stepped up and took more action, Facebook's recent statement about having a strike system before a permanent ban as everybody deserves a second chance is ludicrous.

There needs to be a zero tolerance approach and I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I feel ID should be required now which social media companies have to release to the Police instantly on request.

Start banning households, so when little Timmy wants to call a footballer the N word online, his sister and parents accounts are also removed. 

There would need to be some application process to prove that you have moved into X house that is blacklisted, but you would hope in time that the message would get across and it would eliminate the issue online.

It's easy to change an IP and email address, less easy to change your home address without identification.

As I say, this won't be popular but isn't it time to say enough is enough and show that.

I've said the same for a long time about an online ID system. 

I'd have no issue with you having some secure system to keep my details,  I can still post anonymously but if I cross the line you can put in a request to release details to authorities. 

I do think social media platforms would not be in favour as I think people using their platforms would reduce significantly and advertising revenue. 

I guess it's a bit like an ID card though some people feel 'if you aren't doing anything wrong why should it matter if you have to carry one' and others see it as big brother. 

[David]

1 minute ago, Sith Happens said:

I've said the same for a long time about an online ID system. 

I'd have no issue with you having some secure system to keep my details,  I can still post anonymously but if I cross the line you can put in a request to release details to authorities. 

I do think social media platforms would not be in favour as I think people using their platforms would reduce significantly and advertising revenue. 

I guess it's a bit like an ID card though some people feel 'if you aren't doing anything wrong why should it matter if you have to carry one' and others see it as big brother. 

There would be an argument to be made that sites such as this forum should be included in that, maybe we should, but I feel it should start with sites that say have over 1 million users initially.

Forums on this scale should be able to moderate the content, if not take down requests can be made to the server, that's a big threat in itself.

[Sith Happens]

Just now, David said:

There would be an argument to be made that sites such as this forum should be included in that, maybe we should, but I feel it should start with sites that say have over 1 million users initially.

Forums on this scale should be able to moderate the content, if not take down requests can be made to the server, that's a big threat in itself.

True I guess. I imagine if it was required then the ID system would be managed by a third party though,  so access would be available to all platforms. 

I agree moderation on here would probably suppress any issues however I recall reading the millwall forum when they booed and their was questionable posts,  even LTLF seems to allow more questionable posts than here and I doubt either forum has significantly more members than here, if they have as many.

 

[David]

3 minutes ago, Sith Happens said:

True I guess. I imagine if it was required then the ID system would be managed by a third party though,  so access would be available to all platforms. 

I agree moderation on here would probably suppress any issues however I recall reading the millwall forum when they booed and their was questionable posts,  even LTLF seems to allow more questionable posts than here and I doubt either forum has significantly more members than here, if they have as many.

 

I guess you could have a government based database, users have an online ID, enter it when registering and websites have to check and verify it's valid. Can't be edited later. Banned from one, ban from them all.

These would be extreme measures though, only a matter of time we have some kind of ID card anyway, what with vaccine passports on the way, will be moved to a global UK ID card that covers the lot, bank, passport, vaccines etc.

[Sith Happens]

1 minute ago, David said:

I guess you could have a government based database, users have an online ID, enter it when registering and websites have to check and verify it's valid. Can't be edited later. Banned from one, ban from them all.

These would be extreme measures though, only a matter of time we have some kind of ID card anyway, what with vaccine passports on the way, will be moved to a global UK ID card that covers the lot, bank, passport, vaccines etc.

Yeah,  and only people over 18 can have so forces parents to take responsibility for what their kids post. 

Honestly doesn't bother me but i do understand why people will see it as in infringement on privacy. 

It would be useful for sites like this, if you ban someone what can you do to stop them rejoining in a different name?

An ID system would prevent it.

The only issue is if it's a country by country system what happens with overseas members. 

Difficult one.

[David]

1 minute ago, Sith Happens said:

It would be useful for sites like this, if you ban someone what can you do to stop them rejoining in a different name?

We have a few methods which for obvious reasons I won't disclose.

Funny thing is, some have slipped through the initial registration check, when they start posting you have that they sound familiar, further check, yep they are back.

Great when they email to say why have I been banned, explain they have been banned previously, deny all knowledge until I list the usernames and then it switches into I'm sorry, that was ages ago, I've changed now, give me a chance ?

[Tyler Durden]

35 minutes ago, David said:

Agreed. 

If you look at the number of recent cases of racial abuse online in football, it's difficult to say it's even had a positive impact.

It's time social media sites stepped up and took more action, Facebook's recent statement about having a strike system before a permanent ban as everybody deserves a second chance is ludicrous.

There needs to be a zero tolerance approach and I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I feel ID should be required now which social media companies have to release to the Police instantly on request.

Start banning households, so when little Timmy wants to call a footballer the N word online, his sister and parents accounts are also removed. 

There would need to be some application process to prove that you have moved into X house that is blacklisted, but you would hope in time that the message would get across and it would eliminate the issue online.

It's easy to change an IP and email address, less easy to change your home address without identification.

As I say, this won't be popular but isn't it time to say enough is enough and show that.

I got a day's ban on Facebook for something that was totally ludricous. The problem with FBs stance is that they apply a sledgehammer trying to crack a walnut approach meaning a lot of perfectly innocent posts are censored or accounts banned whilst actual offensive items are roped into the same mix. 

Twitter is the worst for it I've seen accounts posting actively offensive material which are still going when other people have reported them for breaching Twitter guidelines. 

It's a tough one to be able to moderate social media platforms without then infringing a person's freedom of speech or civil liberties. 

Ban then all.

[David]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I got a day's ban on Facebook for something that was totally ludricous. The problem with FBs stance is that they apply a sledgehammer trying to crack a walnut approach meaning a lot of perfectly innocent posts are censored or accounts banned whilst actual offensive items are roped into the same mix. 

Twitter is the worst for it I've seen accounts posting actively offensive material which are still going when other people have reported them for breaching Twitter guidelines. 

It's a tough one to be able to moderate social media platforms without then infringing a person's freedom of speech or civil liberties. 

Ban then all.

Come on then, what was your ban for, lets hear the juicy details ?

There would have to be some level where X is a permanent ban, but X is a temporary ban. Racism should fall under zero tolerance.

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, David said:

Come on then, what was your ban for, lets hear the juicy details ?

There would have to be some level where X is a permanent ban, but X is a temporary ban. Racism should fall under zero tolerance.

Haha no because it's embarrassing ? 

I can't believe it would be classified as being offensive and was directed as a comment in a chat to one of my friends which makes it even more bizarre. 

[David]

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

Haha no because it's embarrassing ? 

I can't believe it would be classified as being offensive and was directed as a comment in a chat to one of my friends which makes it even more bizarre. 

Oh like that was it, when you say friends were you trying for more than just friendship? ?

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, David said:

Oh like that was it, when you say friends were you trying for more than just friendship? ?

Haha behave now ?

Was perfectly innocent. That's what my lawyer told me to say anyway if anyone asks. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

Just to agree I think it's fair enough and they've all agreed.

That doesn't mean the issue is fixed, problem solved, but it also doesn't mean it achieved nothing or wasn't worth doing. As with everything, it's an ongoing, never ending effort to make lives better for yourself and for everyone else. My overall thoughs on discrimination are the place we are now is better than it was 30 years ago, or even ten years ago, and I think that's what made the George Floyd muder so shocking for so many. Whatever some people may find problematic with what became of the BLM movement, I was heartened by the mass reaction of so many that what happened, and keeps happening in certain communities is wrong and should be shouted about.

I'd also add, as the christians would put it, hate the sin, not the sinner.

 

[Millenniumram]

Think it’s probably the right time. You can’t continue doing something like this forever as it loses it’s impact, and people start to forget the reasons behind it. We now need to come up with another way to show our continued support in the fight against racism.