Size Matters.

[SKRam]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Really shameful that after being brought up on a diet of wingers such as Gary Micklewhite, Nigel Callaghan, Paul Simpson and Ted McMinn we're in the position now where for some time we haven't had a player who can beat a man, dribble or put a decent cross in.

Not sure how we've contrived to end up in this situation, it's really desperate.

Watched all of those. Bliss! We might not have won all our games with those chaps but boy I enjoyed the football (mostly). 0-4 at BBG to Wolves that hurt a lot 

[Steve How Hard?]

22 minutes ago, David said:

If you trim the grass they look bigger. So I’m told.

What grass? Haven't seen much of that on our surface recently. 

[David]

Just now, Steve How Hard? said:

What grass? Haven't seen much of that on our surface recently. 

Some are late developers, don’t worry about it, doesn’t stop @DarkFruitsRam7

[Tyler Durden]

4 minutes ago, David said:

Tyler, do you never think, you know what, there’s a lot going on in the world, a lot of clubs are in a much much worse position than us, let’s just enjoy what we have and not poo poo everything?

I know it might be a little weird at first, but once you get to grips with it and where we are, football becomes more tolerable and you actually start to look forward to match days ? 

I'm only interested in one team tbf I'm just using what I have seen at the club as a point of reference to what's happening now as wingers or lack of them was mentioned in this thread a few times. 

I haven't looked forward to match days especially this season as due to where we are the result is always of paramount importance compared with the performance.

Maybe next season if we are in the same division we can kick on but by Christ it's painful viewing atm

[David]

9 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I'm only interested in one team tbf I'm just using what I have seen at the club as a point of reference to what's happening now as wingers or lack of them was mentioned in this thread a few times. 

I haven't looked forward to match days especially this season as due to where we are the result is always of paramount importance compared with the performance.

Maybe next season if we are in the same division we can kick on but by Christ it's painful viewing atm

Times have changed, I grew up watching Jim Smith’s team, dread to think what they would do to this team if they played them now, but it’s in the past. If I was to use that as a reference point I may as well give up watching us now, chances of us pushing Europe now is pretty slim, unless some oil tycoon comes in, but then would it have the same feeling? Not sure. 

Nothing personal, you just come across as someone pretty down on the team/club, that’s fine, opinions and all that, I guess being surrounded by Grimsby Town fans up here who are scared of dropping out the league again, gives me a different perspective.

[Mucker1884]

23 hours ago, TINMANTED said:

exactly this,and we are happy packing our half and playing head tennis, dwarfs against giants,never going to end well.the only way to compete is fast flowing football on the floor as we played before christmas in our better spell

[kevinhectoring]

46 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

we're in the position now where for some time we haven't had a player who can beat a man, dribble or put a decent cross in.

At the risk of repetition, a number of people on here clearly reckon that Byrne is a wonderful crosser of the ball   Left foot, right foot, even with the outside of his boot. Think of the sitter King Kazim missed against Wycombe

[Millenniumram]

Agree with this. There’s too many players in our team who are bullied off the ball far too easily, which makes us vulnerable to “thuggish” teams like Rotherham, hence why we’ve struggled to beat the teams around us. That really could prove fatal to us this season - the Championship is still a league where you need physicality, and I fear we’ve underestimated the importance of that.

Feels harsh to single someone out, especially early into their Derby career, but I look at Lee Gregory as the perfect example of this. For a striker, he is unbelievably physically weak. He may as well have not been on the pitch against Cardiff, because as soon as the ball went up to him, he immediately lost it because the defenders bullied him. Now, I appreciate he’s got other more desirable attributes to his game, but he’s never going to have any influence as a lone striker with so little physicality. So why the hell did we bring him in?! He’s clearly not suited to what we need. It’s yet another example of the atrocious recruitment we’ve seen over the past 5 or so years, which is exactly why we are in this mess.

Of course, it’s not just Gregory that’s leading to our lack of physicality - after all, his minutes have been limited. You can see similar issues with some of our more regular starters, especially down the left side imo. You look at Jozwiak, all he seems to do every game is dribble into trouble, and get knocked off the ball with ease because he’s too weak to try that sort of move. It means he never really gets himself into any dangerous positions, where he might be able to cause some damage. Even Buchanan lacks a bit in strength for me as well. He’s good in the defensive third, but as soon as he gets forward he gets knocked off the ball by stronger defenders, very similar to Jozwiak. It leaves us with pretty much zero attacking threat down that left side because we lose possession before we can create anything. Which then puts a lot of pressure on Waghorn down the right side, who does have some physicality, to be our main attacking threat - which is why there’s so much focus on his mistakes and wastefulness in the final third.

[David]

30 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Agree with this. There’s too many players in our team who are bullied off the ball far too easily, which makes us vulnerable to “thuggish” teams like Rotherham, hence why we’ve struggled to beat the teams around us. That really could prove fatal to us this season - the Championship is still a league where you need physicality, and I fear we’ve underestimated the importance of that.

Feels harsh to single someone out, especially early into their Derby career, but I look at Lee Gregory as the perfect example of this. For a striker, he is unbelievably physically weak. He may as well have not been on the pitch against Cardiff, because as soon as the ball went up to him, he immediately lost it because the defenders bullied him. Now, I appreciate he’s got other more desirable attributes to his game, but he’s never going to have any influence as a lone striker with so little physicality. So why the hell did we bring him in?! He’s clearly not suited to what we need. It’s yet another example of the atrocious recruitment we’ve seen over the past 5 or so years, which is exactly why we are in this mess.

Of course, it’s not just Gregory that’s leading to our lack of physicality - after all, his minutes have been limited. You can see similar issues with some of our more regular starters, especially down the left side imo. You look at Jozwiak, all he seems to do every game is dribble into trouble, and get knocked off the ball with ease because he’s too weak to try that sort of move. It means he never really gets himself into any dangerous positions, where he might be able to cause some damage. Even Buchanan lacks a bit in strength for me as well. He’s good in the defensive third, but as soon as he gets forward he gets knocked off the ball by stronger defenders, very similar to Jozwiak. It leaves us with pretty much zero attacking threat down that left side because we lose possession before we can create anything. Which then puts a lot of pressure on Waghorn down the right side, who does have some physicality, to be our main attacking threat - which is why there’s so much focus on his mistakes and wastefulness in the final third.

Not sure why I'm doing this, but here goes, Chris Martin, wasn't the most physical player either for how he was built and didn't do too bad up top by himself.

Must confess, not seen a whole lot of Gregory to know what kind of player he is and if he has enough about him to make up for his lack of physicality in other areas like Martin.

I'll also be honest in that I would rather be vulnerable to the the odd team like Rotherham than build a team of thugs to bully our way through games, I don't think it's needed either, look at Forest, they picked 4 points off them this season and I wouldn't call them thuggish, they go down at the slightest of touches. 

For what it's worth, we don't look like angels on the discipline table either, 6th with 55 yellows and a red. Watford top with 60 yellows and 1 red so we're not that far behind.

You could argue ours are more petty, dumb bookings and yeah we probably have, but you add a few more brutes into the team and we would be run away champions in that division.

[Millenniumram]

4 hours ago, David said:

Not sure why I'm doing this, but here goes, Chris Martin, wasn't the most physical player either for how he was built and didn't do too bad up top by himself.

Must confess, not seen a whole lot of Gregory to know what kind of player he is and if he has enough about him to make up for his lack of physicality in other areas like Martin.

I'll also be honest in that I would rather be vulnerable to the the odd team like Rotherham than build a team of thugs to bully our way through games, I don't think it's needed either, look at Forest, they picked 4 points off them this season and I wouldn't call them thuggish, they go down at the slightest of touches. 

For what it's worth, we don't look like angels on the discipline table either, 6th with 55 yellows and a red. Watford top with 60 yellows and 1 red so we're not that far behind.

You could argue ours are more petty, dumb bookings and yeah we probably have, but you add a few more brutes into the team and we would be run away champions in that division.

Wait, what???? I know you’re not Chris Martin’s biggest fan (FWIW I’m not quite in the weird cult that he’s got supporting him on here either), but come on now, Martin was undoubtedly a real physical presence up top. It’s one of the main reasons he was so good at what he did in terms of holding the ball up, and why we struggled to replace him when he was injured. Martin’s success in this division is precisely the perfect evidence as to why you need a strong number 9 up front to build your attack around. 

Kazim-Richards is actually a very similar player to Martin, which is why he’s been such a success so far. Gregory on the other hand is very much a different style of striker. As I say, there are certainly still some things that he does well - running onto through balls for example, and he’s also actually quite clever at creating chances for others, when he gets the space. The trouble is, it doesn’t make up for his lack of physicality, which makes him entirely unsuitable for that number 9 position which we really needed another option in. His signing is truly yet another baffling transfer by our recruitment team.

For what it’s worth, I’m not on about us building a team of thugs ourselves to try and play the likes of Rotherham “at their own game”. I’m not interested in us going out there and just kicking the opposition for 90 minutes. I just want us to have players that are strong enough not to just be brushed aside by physical Championship defenders, so that they don’t constantly concede possession. Just some ability to keep hold of the ball in the final third, that’s all I want.

[David]

9 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Wait, what???? I know you’re not Chris Martin’s biggest fan (FWIW I’m not quite in the weird cult that he’s got supporting him on here either), but come on now, Martin was undoubtedly a real physical presence up top.

He was on his backside of a player breathed down his neck, offered zero aerial threat which is bizarre for someone built the way he is. 

[Millenniumram]

58 minutes ago, David said:

He was on his backside of a player breathed down his neck, offered zero aerial threat which is bizarre for someone built the way he is. 

That was just him playing for free kicks, nothing to do with a lack of strength. Agree he lacked the aerial threat of the likes of Kazim-Richards, but that’s not what I’m worried about. I’m worried about a lack of ability to hold onto the ball, not win headers.

[David]

1 minute ago, Millenniumram said:

That was just him playing for free kicks, nothing to do with a lack of strength. Agree he lacked the aerial threat of the likes of Kazim-Richards, but that’s not what I’m worried about. I’m worried about a lack of ability to hold onto the ball, not win headers.

Obvious what it was ?

I just find it hard to say he was a physical player when he chose to try and con the ref half the time.

I’ve been labelled a Martin hater, that’s not the case, I just never signed up to this the sun shines out his backside thinking.

Kazim uses his physicality better for me, stands his ground, will use his body to shield the ball, hold off defenders. 

I’m a big guy myself (behave), but I know if I even attempted to get the ball off him he would bounce me into next week.

[Will Hughes Hair]

Nothing wrong with Chris Martin’s aerial ability. As proved by his defensive contributions for opposition corners over many years.

He couldn’t jump though. Which is a massive issue at attacking corners when you’re 5’10” and being marked by a 6’4” centre half.

[Ghost of Clough]

5 minutes ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

Nothing wrong with Chris Martin’s aerial ability. As proved by his defensive contributions for opposition corners over many years.

He couldn’t jump though. Which is a massive issue at attacking corners when you’re 5’10” and being marked by a 6’4” centre half.

His contribution from corners was to be well positioned so he could head it away unopposed. Useless in aerial battles.

[David]

13 minutes ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

Nothing wrong with Chris Martin’s aerial ability. As proved by his defensive contributions for opposition corners over many years.

He couldn’t jump though. Which is a massive issue at attacking corners when you’re 5’10” and being marked by a 6’4” centre half.

Nothing wrong with his aerial ability....he couldn’t jump though, struggling with this one ?

[Millenniumram]

2 hours ago, David said:

Obvious what it was ?

I just find it hard to say he was a physical player when he chose to try and con the ref half the time.

I’ve been labelled a Martin hater, that’s not the case, I just never signed up to this the sun shines out his backside thinking.

Kazim uses his physicality better for me, stands his ground, will use his body to shield the ball, hold off defenders. 

I’m a big guy myself (behave), but I know if I even attempted to get the ball off him he would bounce me into next week.

There’s no correlation between how physical a player is, and his choice to try and win freekicks. It’s just clever play, doesn’t mean he can’t be strong when he wants to be.

As I say, I’m not one of the Martin is God crew, and I agree that Kazim-Richards has been very good so far - he’s replaced Martin at probably a fraction of the cost. But there’s no doubt Martin was a strong, physical striker - that’s just fact.

[David]

16 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

But there’s no doubt Martin was a strong, physical striker - that’s just fact.

It's actually an opinion ? 

[Will Hughes Hair]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

His contribution from corners was to be well positioned so he could head it away unopposed. Useless in aerial battles.

Exactly this @David