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Rams v Red Dogs (Notts Forest) Match day Thread.


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34 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Did I watch a different game to the forest fans last night? 
 

We were in total control until their goal which was a GK error. They then took control but created very little in terms of anything clear cut. 
 

Our goal came against the run of play but we looked the only side likely to win afterwards. 
 

I’d say that has us being the better team for the first 30 and the last 10 with them being better for the middle 50 Yet Worrall is going on like it was a smash and grab. 

Thought we just looked really poor after their goal and before ours. Forest had total control. We had a few chances but we just looked 2nd best for a lot of that in my opinion. Midfield especially. We could barely put three passes together.

Edited by Theres’s Only Wan Chope
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Let’s be honest, as usual that was another poor local Derby game. As a neutral I would have changed the channel long before Colin’s screamer.

We appear to be matching formations now with the opposition, having 2 sitting midfielders when they didn’t want to cross the half way line was a waste of 45 minutes.

Not sure if this is how Rooney wants to approach every game, or he doesn’t feel like we have the players to play a consistent style/formation.

It’s hard to criticise, he’s doing an incredible job given the circumstances, just think he got it wrong again last night. 

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9 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Off the top of my head, this could be argued about tonight’s game, Wycombe away, QPR away and Millwall away. But it’s subjective I guess.

All I am saying is that the level of performance we saw tonight will see us being found out before long. It was far from fluent in an attacking sense and there were numerous defensive lapses that would have been costly on another night.

The endless passing around at the back almost gifted Forest a free run at goal. They also had three headed chances that they should have done better with. I am sure there are one or two I am missing too.

I just hope that Rooney gets the backing he needs because for our play to evolve, we probably need at least 4 new players. More if we are being absolutely ruthless.

The nature of this league though is that you are rarely going to be better than the other team for 90 minutes. Yesterday we were the better team for the first half an hour and the last ten minutes which is nearly half a game. Still not great but the better team so I don’t really buy that we snatched it. 

As for the other games you list ultimately they are pretty even games that went one way. You can say we snatched those, fine, I don’t disagree. But what about the Watford, Sheff W and Preston games that were snatched the other way. It is just the nature of being a mid table team in this league that you will snatch some tight games and have others snatched from you. 

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58 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

As a slight aside to the performance, did anyone else notice how many incredibly ugly players Florest have? I thought the tv microphones picked up the sound of a banjo playing from their changing room before the match - now I know why.... bunch of inbreds....

To be fair they can’t all have the beautiful looks and complexion of our young Sibbo and the 007 appeal of Waggers 😁

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9 minutes ago, David said:

Let’s be honest, as usual that was another poor local Derby game. As a neutral I would have changed the channel long before Colin’s screamer.

We appear to be matching formations now with the opposition, having 2 sitting midfielders when they didn’t want to cross the half way line was a waste of 45 minutes.

Not sure if this is how Rooney wants to approach every game, or he doesn’t feel like we have the players to play a consistent style/formation.

It’s hard to criticise, he’s doing an incredible job given the circumstances, just think he got it wrong again last night. 

Thought it was pretty clear in the first 5 minutes Forest was going to sit back and hit us on the break. The same tactics they've used for about the last 10 seasons? In all fairness, for a new manager to average two points per game, I'll let him off on what was another awful local Derby. I felt if we started Sibley in midfield with Knight, letting Shinnie sit deep, we would have been more of a handful over the course of the game, rather than relying on another thunderbolt from CKR to get us out of trouble again.

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57 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

I’ve reflected on the game a bit as although Forest were better (just) I probably gave them too much credit initially. They have an excellent squad. Don’t care what anyone says Knockaert was a handful second half last night (though barely touched the ball first half). I think Forest are capable of much more than they showed but are shackled by negative tactics. But then with the money and wages they’re spending that’s not a surprise. If they can somehow dodge FFP for next season they have a chance with Hughton in charge.

However despite them edging it we had the better chances without question. We didn’t play well first half but it was a chess game (about the only thing Worrall got right in his interview), and we’d manipulated Forest into a position where we wanted them, we were really taking charge of the game and they let us. Knight scores I reckon we’d have got a second before half time. We concede a shocking goal then lost all belief. Second half it was tougher because Forest removed the shackles pressed us more aggressively and took control. We had the chance to seize the game and we didn’t. Likewise Forest in the second half and they didn’t. So on balance despite it feeling like we’ve got away with it slightly a draw is about fair. 
 

Many players underperformed last night but right now I think we’re a mid table team. To get to the next level, I don’t think it will take many signings but needs to the right ones. We need big improvements in form from the likes of Jozwiak. But most important is the midfield balance needs sorting. It just isn’t quite right. Knight isn’t a 10 and never will be, Bird I think can play as an 8 or as holding midfield (I look at Garner for them last night and I think Bird is a very similar player), but playing them both with Shinnie reduces our creativity significantly (combined with the wide players not giving us enough right now). We have to try and get Sibley into this team somehow. If we go 4-2-3-1 then Bird and Knight in the 2 with Sibley in the 10 could work, or eventually play the 3 of them in a 4-3-3 (but Sibley being a walking red card might prevent this currently)

I think we continue with what we have (Shinnie Bird and Knight) as that’s getting us points and this season is all about survival. But to move forward, we need to address the midfield balance (as well as demanding more from our wide players)

 

I think Shinnie had one of his poorest games for us last night (I am a big Shinnie fan,  he won't have many that bad) and due to Forest's good defensive shape Buchanan and Byrne were less adventurous in their forward runs than usual. Jozwiak and Waghorn were moving infield but the overlaps weren't there often enough. (Byrne did put some better balls in first half.) Knight can be hard to find at times, reminds me of Bryson in that respect! 

As you say, withought a driving midfielder like Sibley, this then limits Bird's passing options, forcing him to play the safer pass that people are complaining about.

Our midfield options are limited with Bielik 's injury and I worry about their energy playing twice weekly with very few options for rotation. Experience is also a factor, with two out of three of our regular starters still learning their trade. I agree we need to address this next window and am sure we will. Unfortunately, more urgent needs were met in this last window, and money was a big consideration. 

 

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I know I keep going on about it but did anyone notice again last night how often we head the ball straight to opponents when under no pressure? 

No other team does it as often. It's like they go for power without consequence. Drives me nuts. 

 

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14 minutes ago, David said:

Let’s be honest, as usual that was another poor local Derby game. As a neutral I would have changed the channel long before Colin’s screamer.

We appear to be matching formations now with the opposition, having 2 sitting midfielders when they didn’t want to cross the half way line was a waste of 45 minutes.

Not sure if this is how Rooney wants to approach every game, or he doesn’t feel like we have the players to play a consistent style/formation.

It’s hard to criticise, he’s doing an incredible job given the circumstances, just think he got it wrong again last night. 

You're forgetting David...we're not Barcelona.

2 teams at the wrong end of the table...just, One team leading 1-0 who think it's enough if they can defend, The other team having a chance or 2 but not taking them.

In public both managers are disappointed, In private they'll both be pleased with a point.

A point more away from relegation against a team that is as close as us to relegation.

No complaints from me 👍

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11 minutes ago, David said:

Let’s be honest, as usual that was another poor local Derby game. As a neutral I would have changed the channel long before Colin’s screamer.

We appear to be matching formations now with the opposition, having 2 sitting midfielders when they didn’t want to cross the half way line was a waste of 45 minutes.

Not sure if this is how Rooney wants to approach every game, or he doesn’t feel like we have the players to play a consistent style/formation.

It’s hard to criticise, he’s doing an incredible job given the circumstances, just think he got it wrong again last night. 

I don’t think he had the personnel to play how he wanted to last night. When the 4-2-3-1 works, the 2 need to sit deep to make the room the 3 and I don’t think it suits Shinnie or Bird, who although are different style of players kind of want to do the same job as neither are tradition defensive mids. The other issue is that the three need to work together but last night Knight and Jozwiak cancelled each other out because they tried to occupy a similar space in the centre which congested it worse. So Shinnie or Bird couldn’t get forward and Knight and Joz were ineffective. 

I think we needed someone running from deep to dislodge their 2 and create the space against a largely weak defence but we stopped ourselves from being able to do it. 
 
When Rowett’s 4-2-3-1 worked it was because Vydra could occupy that central space between defence and midfield by himself (Ledley and Huddlestone were deep, Lawrence and Weimann were more disciplined). His goal against forest was actually the perfect example of what he was wanting to do. Although I don’t really condone that style of football, you need to make room for it to work, and last night we were congesting that space.

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6 minutes ago, SouthStandDan said:

Thought it was pretty clear in the first 5 minutes Forest was going to sit back and hit us on the break. The same tactics they've used for about the last 10 seasons? In all fairness, for a new manager to average two points per game, I'll let him off on what was another awful local Derby. I felt if we started Sibley in midfield with Knight, letting Shinnie sit deep, we would have been more of a handful over the course of the game, rather than relying on another thunderbolt from CKR to get us out of trouble again.

We struggle as well to break teams down that like to sit back, we lack that bit of magic that unlocks a defence.

Not a bad thing, many struggle and can make for incredibly dull games.

I was a little surprised they actually came out to play in the second half when they were 1 up, pressing us further up the pitch. 

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1 minute ago, TuffLuff said:

I don’t think he had the personnel to play how he wanted to last night. When the 4-2-3-1 works, the 2 need to sit deep to make the room the 3 and I don’t think it suits Shinnie or Bird, who although are different style of players kind of want to do the same job as neither are tradition defensive mids. The other issue is that the three need to work together but last night Knight and Jozwiak cancelled each other out because they tried to occupy a similar space in the centre which congested it worse. So Shinnie or Bird couldn’t get forward and Knight and Joz were ineffective. 

I think we needed someone running from deep to dislodge their 2 and create the space against a largely weak defence but we stopped ourselves from being able to do it. 
 
When Rowett’s 4-2-3-1 worked it was because Vydra could occupy that central space between defence and midfield by himself (Ledley and Huddlestone were deep, Lawrence and Weimann were more disciplined). His goal against forest was actually the perfect example of what he was wanting to do. Although I don’t really condone that style of football, you need to make room for it to work, and last night we were congesting that space.

Dare I say it, we could do with a fit Lawrence 

PRI_162129881-e1598381548406-1200x662.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

One more point toward mid table is the way I see it.

Good news is that CKR confidence still high with another great goal. This is vital for rest of the season.

Agree. Just before the Udders game I said to my son that I would be very happy with 4 points out of the two games and that’s what we got. 

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