The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Stive Pesley]

14 hours ago, maxjam said:

With the BBC it is often what they don't report in as much as what they do.

Which is only a problem for people when it's the thing they believe in not being reported I guess. 

 

[Archied]

27 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

It's a calculated gamble by the government isn't it? Just found out my best mate has got it, and he's clinically vulnerable (double-jabbed but not had a booster yet). Caught it from his daughter who is in a class where the current count is 19 kids out of a class of 30 are off with covid

Hopefully the jab does its job for him - and that all the kids stay out of hospital. But of any of them die - hard lines eh? As long as the rest of us are ok

So are you saying close schools ? Because only a fool would deny that this virus is like the flu and common cold in terms people catching it , there really is no way that people aren’t going to catch it ( test positive for it ) and not only once but multiple times whether jabbed or not , please don’t give me the masks thing either , they are silly bits of paper that do next to nothing 

[Gaspode]

34 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Which is only a problem for people when it's the thing they believe in not being reported I guess. 

 

Really? The BBC News (rightly or wrongly) are trusted by the vast majority of the country to deliver clear, balanced and unbiased information. As soon as they divert from that (as they frequently do with their 'correspondents' putting ascross opinion pieces as if they're fact), then they're no better than the Sun or one of the miriad of other partisan media outlets - yet the trust that the majority has means their word is taken as gospel and never questioned....

[maxjam]

50 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Which is only a problem for people when it's the thing they believe in not being reported I guess. 

 

Lets not gloss over the narrative they spin in the article but yes I would agree it is 'only a problem for people when it's the thing they believe in not being reported'.  I would love to talk more about politics and media bias but they post would only get removed so maybe start by watching some Project Veritas and maybe remember that was how the BBC, Roger Cook for example, used to operate in their heyday. 

As for the laughing emojis and having my posts 'fixed' I don't know whether Ivermectin may be of use in treating covid - neither does anyone on here.  I just find it interesting, if a little sad that instead of waiting for the findings of high credibility studies to determine one way or another a lot of people have already made their minds up one way or another.

[alexxxxx]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

It's a calculated gamble by the government isn't it? Just found out my best mate has got it, and he's clinically vulnerable (double-jabbed but not had a booster yet). Caught it from his daughter who is in a class where the current count is 19 kids out of a class of 30 are off with covid

Hopefully the jab does its job for him - and that all the kids stay out of hospital. But of any of them die - hard lines eh? As long as the rest of us are ok

Tbh in my view the government has dropped the ball on the final stretch of vaccination. They were too slow to vaccinate the under 30s and then too slow to decide to only partially vaccinate the kids. 

Schools are a huge driver case spread but seems to be only the risk to the kids that seems to be considered rather than wider community. 

People should be under no illusion that covid is an ongoing problem - 40k additional deaths per year is not a good outcome. 

[Eddie]

11 minutes ago, maxjam said:

As for the laughing emojis and having my posts 'fixed' I don't know whether Ivermectin may be of use in treating covid - neither does anyone on here.  I just find it interesting, if a little sad that instead of waiting for the findings of high credibility studies to determine one way or another a lot of people have already made their minds up one way or another.

Every single study that showed any positive therapeutic effect has been discredited so far, even to the point that the papers in some instances have been withdrawn - yet you continue to spout anti-science bilge. When a high-credibility study shows no positive therapeutic effect, you ignore or bypass it, preferring to wait for the next one.

It's how really 'enlightened' anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists operate - dilute, deflect, ignore, move on to the next nonsense.

[maxjam]

21 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Every single study that showed any positive therapeutic effect has been discredited so far, even to the point that the papers in some instances have been withdrawn - yet you continue to spout anti-science bilge. When a high-credibility study shows no positive therapeutic effect, you ignore or bypass it, preferring to wait for the next one.

It's how really 'enlightened' anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists operate - dilute, deflect, ignore, move on to the next nonsense.

As far as I can tell, the story that keeps being rehashed centers around flawed studies carried out in countries such as Lebanon, Egypt etc.  I admit I haven't followed the story closely neither do I have intimate knowledge of every study undertaken, but when the BBC regurgitate the same Lebanon spiel, fill it with anti-vaxxers, livestock Ivermectin and end the article with an anacdotal evidence its clear to me what the agenda of the article had.  So yes, I'd prefer to wait for the results of the high credibilty studies that I know about in the US and UK which will hopefully put an end to the saga one way or another.

Furthermore I have never said take Ivermectin for covid, neither have I said you shouldn't get the jab - I have in fact often said the opposite, calling it a no-brainer if you are over 50 or vulnerable.  

Edited October 8, 2021 by maxjam

[Stive Pesley]

25 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I just find it interesting, if a little sad that instead of waiting for the findings of high credibility studies to determine one way or another a lot of people have already made their minds up one way or another.

The irony in your comment is THAT is exactly what the BBC report in question is reporting on - the sadness of people who made up their mind about it without waiting for proper studies, and were getting into social media echo chambers about it

Quote

Large pro-ivermectin Facebook groups have turned into forums for people to find advice on where to buy it, including preparations meant for animals.

Some groups regularly contain posts about conspiracy theories of ivermectin cover-ups, as well as pushing anti-vaccine sentiment or encouraging patients to leave hospital if they aren't getting the drug.

That's the story. At the point that these people were operating, there were no conclusive studies - just a load of fabricated &  twisted evidence being pushed by conspiracy theorists. 

[maxjam]

1 minute ago, Stive Pesley said:

The irony in your comment is THAT is exactly what the BBC report in question is reporting on - the sadness of people who made up their mind about it without waiting for proper studies, and were getting into social media echo chambers about it

I never said that it went one way and the fact that you can't really talk about these things on social media leads people to end up in echo chambers.  

If they were more upfront, allowed discussion and clearly stated that proper clinical trials were underway people might have more trust in the system and not end up taking livestock ivermectin ? 

[Stive Pesley]

23 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I never said that it went one way and the fact that you can't really talk about these things on social media leads people to end up in echo chambers.  

An interesting take - "can't really talk about it" apart from all those people talking about it so much they form Facebook groups to talk about it ?

 

24 minutes ago, maxjam said:

If they were more upfront, allowed discussion and clearly stated that proper clinical trials were underway people might have more trust in the system and not end up taking livestock ivermectin

In an ideal world yeah, but I think we both know that the majority of people embroiled in conspiracy theories would simply distrust what was said anyway. It's a no win situation. The answer is to educate and provide better mental health support

Oh and to clamp down on those who make a career out of exploiting those vulnerable to conspiracy theories by pushing all their buttons constantly 

 

 

[maxjam]

Just now, Stive Pesley said:

An interesting take - "can't really talk about it" apart from all those people talking about it so much they form Facebook groups to talk about it ?

So their echo chamber then?

 

Just now, Stive Pesley said:

In an ideal world yeah, but I think we both know that the majority of people embroiled in conspiracy theories would simply distrust what was said anyway. It's a no win situation. The answer is to educate and provide better mental health support

Oh and to clamp down on those who make a career out of exploiting those vulnerable to conspiracy theories by pushing all their buttons constantly 

Well, I have different ideas about that but we're only loosely hanging onto the covid topic as it is so, until next time... 

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

As for the laughing emojis and having my posts 'fixed' I don't know whether Ivermectin may be of use in treating covid - neither does anyone on here.  I just find it interesting, if a little sad that instead of waiting for the findings of high credibility studies to determine one way or another a lot of people have already made their minds up one way or another.

You don't think that there's been long enough to conduct peer-reviewed studies of it's usefulness then? And yet there still aren't any.

 

[maxjam]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

You don't think that there's been long enough to conduct peer-reviewed studies of it's usefulness then? And yet there still aren't any.

You are quite welcome to link me some.

Regardless, if there was a definitive answer then the studies being conducted in the US and UK would be redundant, but they aren't and they are being conducted at institutions with excellent reputations.  I really don't know what the upset is about waiting for them to either confirm previous findings or offer something new. 

I am not saying don't get vaxxed in the meantime neither am I saying you should take Ivermectin for covid, all I have stated is that there are several high credibility studies being undertaken and that politics has split laymen into believers or deniers whilst the science in still ongoing. 

[Stive Pesley]

12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

You don't think that there's been long enough to conduct peer-reviewed studies of it's usefulness then? And yet there still aren't any.

 

There are still ongoing studies though - which have yet to offer any conclusions, so in the meantime - if you don't mention that, then somehow you're as good as injecting horse de-wormer into a mentally ill person's eyeballs...apparently ?

Because "politics"?!

Edited October 8, 2021 by Stive Pesley

[maxjam]

11 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

There are still ongoing studies though - which have yet to offer any conclusions, so in the meantime - if you don't mention that, then somehow you're as good as injecting horse de-wormer into a mentally ill person's eyeballs...apparently ?

Because "politics"?!

There is probably a reason why few people post in here anymore, maybe its because unless you follow the script you're accused of being bleach drinking, horse de-worming, anti-vaxxer.  Sensible discussion died a long time ago and so has mine in this thread.

 

[1of4]

Ivermectin a drug used for de-worming horses. A drug that the company that manufactures it, who  know exactly what's in it and  are telling people not to use it, as it has no benifit in the treatment of covid. A drug that has not only lead to people becoming seriously ill but sadly the death of many Americans who were  supid enough to take a drug designed for animals.

I find it amusing that many of the people decrying the use of vaccines that they claim are untested. Are the same people who earlier in the pandemic were extolling the virtues of hydroxychloroquine and are now championing the use of Ivermectin in the treatment of covid.

[maxjam]

23 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Ivermectin a drug used for de-worming horses.

FFS, there really is no helping some people.

[Stive Pesley]

44 minutes ago, maxjam said:

There is probably a reason why few people post in here anymore, maybe its because unless you follow the script you're accused of being bleach drinking, horse de-worming, anti-vaxxer.  Sensible discussion died a long time ago and so has mine in this thread.

With respect Max - in this instance, you have brought this on yourself by taking issue with a BBC news article based on it not saying what you think it should say, claiming that this is somehow a politicising of the issue. When challenged you've repeatedly been unable to explain what is political about the article. To me, and it seems everyone else it's just a reportage article about how false information on this drug has resulted in *some* people taking it recklessly. I see no mention of politics - only you repeatedly bringing it up, and refusing to let it drop

 

[maxjam]

11 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

With respect Max - in this instance, you have brought this on yourself by taking issue with a BBC news article based on it not saying what you think it should say, claiming that this is somehow a politicising of the issue. When challenged you've repeatedly been unable to explain what is political about the article. To me, and it seems everyone else it's just a reportage article about how false information on this drug has resulted in *some* people taking it recklessly. I see no mention of politics - only you repeatedly bringing it up, and refusing to let it drop

But I have explained my reasoning - I pointed out the narrative of the article.  As with other similar ones it links flawed studies with anti-vaxxers, livestock Ivermectin and anecdotal evidence to the point where a lot of people ONLY think that Ivermectin is a horse de-wormer (see post above) and don't know that its been used safely by humans approx 4bn times over the course of 40 years...

'Everyone else' seems to think I'm some sort of anti-vaxxer, horse de-wormer advocate, most of my posts since last night have been in relation to those posts but whatever, I don't really care anymore its time for me to move on from this thread as a lot of others seem to have done.

[Malagaram]

54 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Ivermectin a drug used for de-worming horses. A drug that the company that manufactures it, who  know exactly what's in it and  are telling people not to use it, as it has no benifit in the treatment of covid. A drug that has not only lead to people becoming seriously ill but sadly the death of many Americans who were  supid enough to take a drug designed for animals.

I find it amusing that many of the people decrying the use of vaccines that they claim are untested. Are the same people who earlier in the pandemic were extolling the virtues of hydroxychloroquine and are now championing the use of Ivermectin in the treatment of covid.

My wife has just shown me a message on Indian TV,Akaal,of a young Indian man who wanted to fly to the UK,on arrival at Indira Gandhi in Delhi,he was asked for his innoculation papers,and was told he didnt have the right injection papers,he rang his parents in Delhi,and was told to wait at airport while they got him the "right papers"he got the papers after 2 hours(obviously forged)and has boarded Air India and is on his way to London,and is happily spreading his germs around the uk.

And then I wondered why there were 40,000 new cases in the uk yesterday yesterday,obvious to me know when people will "cheat the system" to get their children into England