Gone Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Stive Pesley said: April I believe. It's sort of on-topic I guess, as the justification for breaking the manifesto promise on no tax/NI rises is that "no one predicted the pandemic" If only there were another way to sort it though - like, maybe a windfall tax on the already wealthy who have vastly increased their wealth as a direct result of the pandemic. There has been unimaginable mental, physical and financial suffering caused by this pandemic (and that's just on this thread!) so the fact that some people are laughing all the way to the bank as a result makes me sick Thank you Yeah we have to pay somehow that’s clear. But maybe Instead of hitting the hard working again we should reduce the handouts to layabouts and scroungers. (Anyway your right off topic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Git Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 25 minutes ago, TexasRam said: Anyone one know when the new NI rip off kicks in? Is now or April? Is the 1.25% in addition to the "£350,000,000 a week" we used to give to the EU, (asking for a friend)? GboroRam, ariotofmyown, Comrade 86 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, maxjam said: The article suggests a link. More than half that caught it are bus drivers that surely interact with thousands of people throughout the day? It also mentions nothing any health/weight issues etc - bus drivers tend not to be the fittest of people for example! We know the fatality rate now and who is at the most risk, if people don't want the jab imho its up to them - everyone has surely had the opportunity by now. Mandating vaccines (or vaccine passports) will lead to a lot of resentment, job losses (inc services not being delivered) and potentially violence. My point and that of the article is really twofold. 1. That nobody working for Miami-Dade who has been vaccinated has died. 2. That this is the easiest way for the virus to spread when unvaccinated employees who come into contact with hundreds of kids, pass it on to some who then pass it to parents or guardians. The school bus system is entirely different in the US. School start times tend to be staggered and the buses are only used for the schools as such the drivers are employed by the school districts not some random bus company that is contracted out. I'm sure you have seen the yellow ones I'm talking about. They are purpose fitted with things like the arms that come out to say stop when they are dropping kids off - it's actually illegal to pass a stopped school bus even if you are on the other side of the road unless there's a central reservation. So, I'm sure a few drivers will moonlight, but the vast majority won't and will only come into contact with kids. And in any case, bus driving is not in big demand in most areas of the US because the public transport system sucks outside of places like New York and finding a job that you can get to and work between 10 and 3 would be problematic. Edited September 9, 2021 by Bob The Badger Delete random white space ariotofmyown and Wolfie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 22 minutes ago, TexasRam said: Anyone one know when the new NI rip off kicks in? Is now or April? If you asked an MP, they would probably struggle to give you a definitive answer, such was the lack of detail. At least no one will have to pay more than 86k for care in the future (obviously excluding accommodation and food which is basically free right). Top tip, make sure you and your partner keep 86k each in savings. Get your accountant to set up an account in the Cayman Islands so you can keep it away from the tax man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 Rather bizarrely my wife got her new NI codes yesterday when this was being discussed. So presumably they'll have to reissue them now. Not entirely sure how that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Bob The Badger said: Rather bizarrely my wife got her new NI codes yesterday when this was being discussed. So presumably they'll have to reissue them now. Not entirely sure how that works. Was all discussed yesterday in the Commons. Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said: Is the 1.25% in addition to the "£350,000,000 a week" we used to give to the EU, (asking for a friend)? I don't imagine that this increase in NI to raise 12 billion a year is going to land too well with people who were expecting the extra 18 billion the bus promised us. At least "getting social care done" only took one day though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Git Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) Maybe the new cash in the NHS will be used to treat the extra illnesses caused by relaxing the law on dumping raw (untreated) sewerage into rivers. https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/brexit-raw-sewerage-water-treatment-b1915765.html What an utterly reprehensible bunch we have as a government. Trashing the country so one man could become PM. Edited September 9, 2021 by Grumpy Git Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 I posted many moons ago about how I expected those screaming for the economy to be shut down due to the pandemic would greet the inevitable tax hike with their usual level headed stoicism. If you opposed the lockdowns, have at it. If you supported them, this is quite literally what you asked for. maxjam, Archied, Wolfie and 2 others 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Bob The Badger said: My point and that of the article is really twofold. 1. That nobody working for Miami-Dade who has been vaccinated has died. 2. That this is the easiest way for the virus to spread when unvaccinated employees who come into contact with hundreds of kids, pass it on to some who then pass it to parents or guardians. The school bus system is entirely different in the US. School start times tend to be staggered and the buses are only used for the schools as such the drivers are employed by the school districts not some random bus company that is contracted out. I'm sure you have seen the yellow ones I'm talking about. They are purpose fitted with things like the arms that come out to say stop when they are dropping kids off - it's actually illegal to pass a stopped school bus even if you are on the other side of the road unless there's a central reservation. So, I'm sure a few drivers will moonlight, but the vast majority won't and will only come into contact with kids. And in any case, bus driving is not in big demand in most areas of the US because the public transport system sucks outside of places like New York and finding a job that you can get to and work between 10 and 3 would be problematic. I know what you're saying, all I'm arguing is that unless you pin people down you can't force them to have a jab *and* unfortunately in some sectors that will lead to a long term shortfall in staff and other problems/deaths. You can train more teachers or bus drivers in the long term - kids will just have to miss yet a bit more school ? but in the UK we are already 100k care staff short, if 10% of those currently working in care are put out of work in November due to their vaccination status the cost could be deadly. FWIW, I'm not arguing for either situation, I personally don't know what to do - ideally I would leave it to personal choice but can see the benefits in being vaccinated for certain jobs. I am however strongly against mandating the jab and can see potential problems arising if it goes ahead or not. Who'd be a politician... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, Anon said: I posted many moons ago about how I expected those screaming for the economy to be shut down due to the pandemic would greet the inevitable tax hike with their usual level headed stoicism. If you opposed the lockdowns, have at it. If you supported them, this is quite literally what you asked for. So wise. Let's see if all those people who were pro-lockdown come on and start moaning about tax rises then? You are aware that this tax increase is supposedly to address the funding issue with social care right? Of which almost no plans have been mentioned, let alone scrutinised. Even though our leaders have been planning this for years. But this money won't be going to social care yet, it will be used to reduce the NHS backlogs that have built up over the last 18 months as the hospitals were full of Covid patients. How much longer do you think these backlogs would have been without lockdowns? Oh, no details of course of how this money will be used. Robot nurses perhaps? Glad you are happy with this pathetic state of affairs. Stive Pesley, Comrade 86 and Bob The Badger 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 hour ago, TexasRam said: Thank you Yeah we have to pay somehow that’s clear. But maybe Instead of hitting the hard working again we should reduce the handouts to layabouts and scroungers. (Anyway your right off topic) Do you consider all people claiming benefits, has layabouts and scroungers or just a postion of those on benefits. If its the latter then the money saved would be no way near the amount that could to raised by making companies like Amazon and Google pay the correct amount of tax warrented by their profits Stive Pesley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, 1of4 said: Do you consider all people claiming benefits, has layabouts and scroungers or just a postion of those on benefits. If its the latter then the money saved would be no way near the amount that could to raised by making companies like Amazon and Google pay the correct amount of tax warrented by their profits I consider that comment for those able too but not contributing back. And I agree on the big companies. A combination of both in conjunction with even less foreign aid. That amount should cover the requirements and not hit the working man/woman (and non binaries of course) pockets, especially those in the health sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, Anon said: I posted many moons ago about how I expected those screaming for the economy to be shut down due to the pandemic would greet the inevitable tax hike with their usual level headed stoicism. If you opposed the lockdowns, have at it. If you supported them, this is quite literally what you asked for. Do show me the posts where people in favour of lockdown said there'd be no tax hikes to pay for Covid related issues. Having said that according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies we did spend more on the military than any other country in the world other than the US, China and India in 2020 - even more than Russia. So maybe we could move some of that into a Covid budget and top it up with a Covid tax on the super-wealthy and corporations who are directly profiting from it like Amazon. Amazon usually hit their affiliates when this kind of things happen so they'll be ok and Jeff will remain able to feed himself. I actually like the idea of a Covid tax because everybody will understand why it's needed. And also, the tax rises aren't just because of the lockdown, I hear track and trace cost a few bob too. Stive Pesley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Anon said: I posted many moons ago about how I expected those screaming for the economy to be shut down due to the pandemic Don't recall any posts 'screaming for the economy to be shut down'. Perhaps you could share a few? As I recall, the reason given was to try and save lives. I also think that you'll find that most of the people your post targets are of a socialist leaning, so they'll be quite happy to see increased spend on social care in the unlikely event that should ever happen under the current government. ariotofmyown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Bob The Badger said: Do show me the posts where people in favour of lockdown said there'd be no tax hikes to pay for Covid related issues. Having said that according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies we did spend more on the military than any other country in the world other than the US, China and India in 2020 - even more than Russia. So maybe we could move some of that into a Covid budget and top it up with a Covid tax on the super-wealthy and corporations who are directly profiting from it like Amazon. Amazon usually hit their affiliates when this kind of things happen so they'll be ok and Jeff will remain able to feed himself. I actually like the idea of a Covid tax because everybody will understand why it's needed. And also, the tax rises aren't just because of the lockdown, I hear track and trace cost a few bob too. It won't take much to pay back the money allocated to track and trace. The government will be able recouped some of the money spent on track and trace, through the taxes paid by all the staff used to administer this wonderful scheme. I'm sure millions of pounds wouldn't have ended up in offshore accounts via the pockets of the tory donors, who were given the job of setting up the system. Would it !? Comrade 86, Stive Pesley and ariotofmyown 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 5 hours ago, Bob The Badger said: I wasn't pinning it on the school system, I was just suggesting that I think people who are in contact with kids should be vaccinated because that is how it will most likely spread this autumn. You do realise the vaccinated are catching and spreading it too , with an Oxford study and data from Israel suggesting the double jabbed have a higher risk of catching and passing it on , though risk of being seriously ill from it is reduced , they suggest people with natural immunity from having it are less likely to catch and spread it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 5 hours ago, Stive Pesley said: April I believe. It's sort of on-topic I guess, as the justification for breaking the manifesto promise on no tax/NI rises is that "no one predicted the pandemic" If only there were another way to sort it though - like, maybe a windfall tax on the already wealthy who have vastly increased their wealth as a direct result of the pandemic. There has been unimaginable mental, physical and financial suffering caused by this pandemic (and that's just on this thread!) so the fact that some people are laughing all the way to the bank as a result makes me sick Of course you are spot on , whilst as a socialist at heart I can’t really complain about paying more for better nhs , social care and education it really comes down to if the money is used properly and if it’s collected fairly , it’s always the least able to pay who get the short end Stive Pesley, ariotofmyown and Comrade 86 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, Archied said: Of course you are spot on , whilst as a socialist at heart I can’t really complain about paying more for better nhs , social care and education it really comes down to if the money is used properly and if it’s collected fairly , it’s always the least able to pay who get the short end Absolutely - we're either all in it together or we're not. No qualms about paying an NI increase ring-fenced for NHS/Social Care if there was any evidence that the people (and their donors) making these decisions on our behalf weren't actively avoiding it We can all accept that more taxation is needed to fund these public services, but imagine if there was a referendum tomorrow Two options on the ballot 1. The NI increase as planned or 2. The NI increase as planned PLUS a % windfall tax on anyone who has seen their personal wealth increase between March 2020 and July 2021 as a direct result of the pandemic I think it might be a just a bit more a landslide than the last referendum we had Bob The Badger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Bob The Badger said: My point and that of the article is really twofold. 1. That nobody working for Miami-Dade who has been vaccinated has died. 2. That this is the easiest way for the virus to spread when unvaccinated employees who come into contact with hundreds of kids, pass it on to some who then pass it to parents or guardians. The school bus system is entirely different in the US. School start times tend to be staggered and the buses are only used for the schools as such the drivers are employed by the school districts not some random bus company that is contracted out. I'm sure you have seen the yellow ones I'm talking about. They are purpose fitted with things like the arms that come out to say stop when they are dropping kids off - it's actually illegal to pass a stopped school bus even if you are on the other side of the road unless there's a central reservation. So, I'm sure a few drivers will moonlight, but the vast majority won't and will only come into contact with kids. And in any case, bus driving is not in big demand in most areas of the US because the public transport system sucks outside of places like New York and finding a job that you can get to and work between 10 and 3 would be problematic. Ok so nobody working for Miami dade who is vaccinated has died , then leave the unvaccinated to make their choice they clearly are no threat to the vaccinated who are as you clearly use in your argument well protected , kind of does your idea of non vaccinated not being allowed to work with children who are at no threat from covid Edited September 9, 2021 by Archied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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