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The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread


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5 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

The BBC get attacked by the right and left for being biased.

That's a good sign in my eyes.

Thats probably more to do with the poor quality of their content rather than due to their bias.

They have offered literally zero balance throughout their whole reporting on the pandemic.

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7 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Here is an interesting fact I heard yesterday.

No vaccine in the history of medicine has had negative long-term side effects that weren't either very inconsequential statistically speaking, or caught in the first 6 weeks of the launch.

So you're probably not going to grow a third (or first) testicle. 

https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stories/medicine/thalidomide

Not a vaccine as such but a drug is a drug.  Besides, the MRNA vaccine is not your traditional vaccine, its gene therapy.

Edited by maxjam
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33 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

In the real world the vaccines are very much up to 80/90% protection for serious illness, but much much less for infection. Israel reckon Pfizer is only about 60% effective for infection at the most. 

Single shots are practically useless. 

The numbers seem to vary a lot depending on the studies. 

I'm not presenting it as an argument to not reopening. I just think it's disingenuous to claim the vaccine is close to being perfect and that it will protect everyone.

Even when vaccinated there is still a large risk for millions of people, particularly if the virus is left to grow quite literally uncontrolled. 

Mathematically it's impossible to reach herd immunity via vaccination, as they are not effective enough, so inevitably many will be infected. 

I would agree personally. I think we should have waited for all adults to have been fully vaccinated before reopening. Boris seemed like he was talking to naughty children on Monday threatening to take away their toys... They haven't even had the chance to be fully vaccinated yet. 

Like I said there is no perfect solution although I think vaccine certificates will be an ongoing condition for international travel for years. 

All of that makes the argument for negative testing far more valuable than vaccine passports imo.

Yet one has been outlawed and the other is being enforced ? 

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Who was it told me that Australia was pretty much back to normal?

Appears levels of discontent, at being locked up, are rising and with only 13% of the population vaccinated it is hard to see how they get back to normal other reaching Covid zero through longer lockdowns.

Appears these short sharp lockdowns arent all they are cracked up to be and, as pointed out by many, just kick the can down the road.

Screenshot_20210721-083253_Samsung Internet.jpg

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3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Who was it told me that Australia was pretty much back to normal?

Appears levels of discontent, at being locked up, are rising and with only 13% of the population vaccinated it is hard to see how they get back to normal other reaching Covid zero through longer lockdowns.

Appears these short sharp lockdowns arent all they are cracked up to be and, as pointed out by many, just kick the can down the road.

Screenshot_20210721-083253_Samsung Internet.jpg

Where is the balance in that headline? Shouldn't it read something like "Covid: Anger as half of Australians in lockdown again, as the government fails in vaccine rollout, but majority of Aussies still prefer these short sharp lockdown and very few deaths versus the neverending lockdowns and horrific death totals in Western Europe"?

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15 minutes ago, maxjam said:

https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stories/medicine/thalidomide

Not a vaccine as such but a drug is a drug.  Besides, the MRNA vaccine is not your traditional vaccine, its gene therapy.

Jeez, I almost mentioned thalidomide but thought 'nah, people will know that's not the same thing'.

Oh well.

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3 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Where is the balance in that headline? Shouldn't it read something like "Covid: Anger as half of Australians in lockdown again, as the government fails in vaccine rollout, but majority of Aussies still prefer these short sharp lockdown and very few deaths versus the neverending lockdowns and horrific death totals in Western Europe"?

 

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1 minute ago, Bob The Badger said:

Jeez, I almost mentioned thalidomide but thought 'nah, people will know that's not the same thing'.

Oh well.

And the MRNA vaccines aren't the same as traditional vaccines.

The point I was making that it wouldn't be the first time that 'something has gone wrong'.

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3 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Where is the balance in that headline? Shouldn't it read something like "Covid: Anger as half of Australians in lockdown again, as the government fails in vaccine rollout, but majority of Aussies still prefer these short sharp lockdown and very few deaths versus the neverending lockdowns and horrific death totals in Western Europe"?

Yeah perhaps it should say that.

Where did you get your fact that a majority of Aussies would be preferred to be in and out of lockdown for the rest of their lives over 1500 cases?

For someone who constantly criticises the Government over lying and disinformation, Ive noticed recently that a lot of your posts appear to have descended to the same level!

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20 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Thats probably more to do with the poor quality of their content rather than due to their bias.

They have offered literally zero balance throughout their whole reporting on the pandemic.

So you say 'They have offered literally zero balance throughout their whole reporting on the pandemic'

And I have heard regular balanced debates, especially on the Nicky Campbell show.

Hm, who should I believe, myself, and what I have heard or a guy who clearly isn't listening but has an agenda longer than Handforth Parish Council?

Tough call. 

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1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said:

The number of Covid deaths in the UK reported yesterday was 10% of Australia's total Covid death toll.

Those short, sharp lockdowns are useless. They should have taken our masterly approach.

And lets not forget that Australia is in the middle of nowhere and has closed its borders;

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/06/australians-asked-to-spend-more-on-domestic-holidays-in-9m-campaign

Whereas we are far more of a global hub and couldn't shut our borders even if we wanted to;

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/20/record-number-of-migrants-cross-channel-in-one-day

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9 hours ago, Archied said:

Sorry but you just cannot say that with certainty, restrictions sent our children to school for a day to mix then locked them back indoors at home where spread is supposedly worse , restrictions sent students back to uni then locked them in ,, restrictions sent millions out to work to mix then locked them indoors to spread anything they caught when comming home , restrictions/ policy pushed old people out of hospitals and into care homes where they spread it and didn’t get the medical treatment they needed ,I could go on with more but that will do for now ,,, there are so many variables that you just cannot make the statement you’ve made??‍♂️

I don't dispute that the care homes thing was a big mistake.

You're refuting my statement that the number of Covid deaths would have been much greater without restrictions. So you don't think that the lockdowns reduced the number of cases and deaths, then?. If the lockdown restrictions didn't bring the hospital numbers down in May/June 2020 and again in Feb/March 2021, what did?.

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9 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Sounds like a pretty big story potentially. Might be worth trying to get a journalist interested.

There are many big stories out there that no big publication dare to publish. There is no independent journalist/publication that isn’t dismissed as conspiracy theorists immediately upon publishing anything against the mainstream ideals. 

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1 minute ago, Bob The Badger said:

So you say 'They have offered literally zero balance throughout their whole reporting on the pandemic'

And I have heard regular balanced debates, especially on the Nicky Campbell show.

Hm, who should I believe, myself, and what I have heard or a guy who clearly isn't listening but has an agenda longer than Handforth Parish Council?

Tough call. 

Well obviously I dont get to see every single programme on the BBC but the news programmes that I watch have absolutely no balance whatsoever.

What should I believe though, my own eyes and ears, or someone who heard something on the Nicky Campbell show and thinks that is representative of the BBC as a whole, and who of course also has their own agenda?

Tough call.

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2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yeah perhaps it should say that.

Where did you get your fact that a majority of Aussies would be preferred to be in and out of lockdown for the rest of their lives over 1500 cases?

For someone who constantly criticises the Government over lying and disinformation, Ive noticed recently that a lot of your posts appear to have descended to the same level!

Well clearly I made it up. We should do a survey.

Would you prefer to have had near continual restrictions since Mar 2020, with 40k ish deaths (adjusted for population), huge negative impacts to the economy, mental health, schooling etc?

Or a few short, sharp lockdowns where life has often continued as normal and the death toll has been tiny?

I wonder who would win? Would anyone have swapped our disaster for how they dealt with it?

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Just now, ariotofmyown said:

Look at the Titanic. "It can't sink" they told us.

Thats the level of argument now?

All drugs have side effects, some worse than others and some, as I pointed out, don't show up in the first few weeks.  The MRNA vaccines are new technology and the long term effects are unknown.  When we were told that after the elderly and vulnerable had recieved their shots we could open back up, I was okay with that.  When they dropped it to the over 50s, I was okay with that.  When they offered it to all adults, I was okay with that - personal choice n all that.

Now they are discussing giving it to kids and making life difficult for anyone that doesn't want to take it.  Regardless of whether I have had the jab or not, thats a dangerous move  and imo starts us down a slippery slope.

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10 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Sounds like a pretty big story potentially. Might be worth trying to get a journalist interested.

Better do it quick, the Govt are trying to change the law so you'll get 14yrs in prison...

Gotta love what this country is turning into ?

 

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