The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Wolfie]

28 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said:

The relevance is that I am disputing the current status of the BBC as an impartial source. I am not qualified to dispute the figures in that article, but any person that might be is unlikely to get a platform.

It’s a mathematical exercise based on real data of people in hospital. I get that it doesn’t agree with you but impartiality doesn’t come into it. 
 

Is anyone arguing that the figures are made up?

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Yeah and those were them scientists involved in the Great Barrington Declaration that was suppressed by the Koch Brothers in the USA. Sorry, I meant promoted by them.

We had herd immunity last summer according to them. They were so suppressed that Johnson spoke to some of them last September. That worked out well. 

When will the world start listening to non-peer reviewed opinions by scientists seeking fame?

I've seen you claim this a few times now.

Who claimed this? Any link please?

[Wolfie]

29 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said:

Yes, what other virus do we measure like this? It's bizarre.

How many other viruses have killed 120k plus people in the uk in a year or so?. Without restrictions and vaccines it would have been much higher.

[Andrew3000]

1 minute ago, Wolfie said:

It’s a mathematical exercise based on real data of people in hospital. I get that it doesn’t agree with you but impartiality doesn’t come into it. 
 

Is anyone arguing that the figures are made up?

It is a statistical exercise that relies on interpretation. As I said I'm not critiquing those figures myself, but there are political decisions about what data gets collected,  analysed and what research is published and disseminated. There is bias in our academic systems which rely on government and big business funding. Are these figures published and peer reviewed? I'm just calling for some more considered analysis and reporting not this reductionist and simplistic stuff. What other factors have been controlled for in the analysis? Etc etc.

[Rev]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

'world beating' track and trace system -

The same system that informs my wife to isolate, yet hasn't contacted me, despite the mutual contact being our live at home son!

 

[uttoxram75]

Before Covid appeared, a world renowned research department at Keele University in staffs was shut down after the Uni received major funding from Vaccine manufacturers, either directly or through "charitable" organisations funded by them.

The research was into a link between aluminium ingestion and Alzheimers/dementia type diseases due to the phenomenal increase of early onset Alzheimers in the US over the last 20 years or so.

When my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimers in 2014 we did what many people do, read up on the disease, talk to the people you come across at hospital visits, consultants, doctors etc, ask about possible causes of the horrific disease, all that stuff you suddenly need to know when a loved one is suffering.

Through a close family member connected to Staffordshire University I ended up reading some of the stuff that the Keele team were working on, although I didn't understand much of it the conclusions were that aluminium was present in all Alzheimers patients that were studied. It appears that it breaks down an enzyme between brain cells (its far more complicated than that, like I say, I don't understand the science but the research was all peer reviewed and published).

As more and more evidence came to the fore it seemed that the presence of aluminium was mainly due to it being used as an adjuvant in vaccines, especially early onset dementia, although links to pesticides and other stuff was not totally ruled out and it was suggested that a combination of several toxic ingestions of aluminium was likely to accumulate and make the problem worse. These studies were over a 20 year period and nothing to do with covid.

As Keele university went through a change in management and new funding arrived from the various groups I mentioned earlier, the research team was told it could not receive any more funding, internally or externally, so any outside group that wished to donate to the research was banned from giving to that particular team. Their website was shut down and the team disbanded.

Dad passed away in October 2019 so all I read about this was way before any mention of covid. It made me think about the ethics of vaccine manufacturers and the control they had over research into possible side effects way before covid vaccines were even thought of.

Some vaccines have been around for years and are obviously safe and needed, but is it too much to ask for full disclosure of all ingredients and possible side effects of new stuff?

My point is that I don't trust people who shut research down in case it affects their bottom line. Look at who finances the WHO, who some of the SAGE experts work for (or receive funding from). My philosophy is "follow the money". The covid vaccine has not gone through the normal testing for short term side effects let alone the long term issues so why should it become mandatory, (legally or through the backdoor by creating a second class citizen denied access to events, work etc).

 

I won't post any links, most people don't care but even if you do its better that you discover it for yourself but In case anyone is interested or think ive just made it all up, google Christopher Exley. He is the main researcher who has studied this stuff for 40 years.

 

[Archied]

22 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Blimey. Where to start with that…

….so I won’t. If that’s what you think, there isn’t really any point. 

As I said , different motives but the tactics used on the population and the results it’s produced have parallel s , ive always been interested in how someone like hitler with his aims managed to get virtually a whole nation to go along , I never bought the German people were simply bad and we were good , hence ive read and watched plenty over the years on how he rose to such power and adulation,,, I kind of enjoy history and modern history in a way I never quite got at school hence I m not about to write an essay on it , respect to those who do ,,not so much to those look down on anybody without the time or inclination to do so??‍♂️

[ariotofmyown]

4 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Before Covid appeared, a world renowned research department at Keele University in staffs was shut down after the Uni received major funding from Vaccine manufacturers, either directly or through "charitable" organisations funded by them.

The research was into a link between aluminium ingestion and Alzheimers/dementia type diseases due to the phenomenal increase of early onset Alzheimers in the US over the last 20 years or so.

When my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimers in 2014 we did what many people do, read up on the disease, talk to the people you come across at hospital visits, consultants, doctors etc, ask about possible causes of the horrific disease, all that stuff you suddenly need to know when a loved one is suffering.

Through a close family member connected to Staffordshire University I ended up reading some of the stuff that the Keele team were working on, although I didn't understand much of it the conclusions were that aluminium was present in all Alzheimers patients that were studied. It appears that it breaks down an enzyme between brain cells (its far more complicated than that, like I say, I don't understand the science but the research was all peer reviewed and published).

As more and more evidence came to the fore it seemed that the presence of aluminium was mainly due to it being used as an adjuvant in vaccines, especially early onset dementia, although links to pesticides and other stuff was not totally ruled out and it was suggested that a combination of several toxic ingestions of aluminium was likely to accumulate and make the problem worse. These studies were over a 20 year period and nothing to do with covid.

As Keele university went through a change in management and new funding arrived from the various groups I mentioned earlier, the research team was told it could not receive any more funding, internally or externally, so any outside group that wished to donate to the research was banned from giving to that particular team. Their website was shut down and the team disbanded.

Dad passed away in October 2019 so all I read about this was way before any mention of covid. It made me think about the ethics of vaccine manufacturers and the control they had over research into possible side effects way before covid vaccines were even thought of.

Some vaccines have been around for years and are obviously safe and needed, but is it too much to ask for full disclosure of all ingredients and possible side effects of new stuff?

My point is that I don't trust people who shut research down in case it affects their bottom line. Look at who finances the WHO, who some of the SAGE experts work for (or receive funding from). My philosophy is "follow the money". The covid vaccine has not gone through the normal testing for short term side effects let alone the long term issues so why should it become mandatory, (legally or through the backdoor by creating a second class citizen denied access to events, work etc).

 

I won't post any links, most people don't care but even if you do its better that you discover it for yourself but In case anyone is interested or think ive just made it all up, google Christopher Exley. He is the main researcher who has studied this stuff for 40 years.

 

Interesting stuff. Have you tried publicising this more or spoken to anyone who could investigate further?

[uttoxram75]

1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said:

Interesting stuff. Have you tried publicising this more or spoken to anyone who could investigate further?

Its out there mate, on the net. The research papers are all out there. 

[ariotofmyown]

2 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Its out there mate, on the net. The research papers are all out there. 

Sounds like a pretty big story potentially. Might be worth trying to get a journalist interested.

[Archied]

33 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I wasn't tutting at your style or grammar at all. Just your rather dramatic Nazi Germany comparison.

Fair enough you were upset. The guy was obviously a bit of a moron to your wife. 

Yes upset at that but also upset that the country is moving to a point where that stuff is not only acceptable his type are positively lauded as the people who care about others , we’ve seen it here , there’s two types of people now , those that care about others and those that don’t ??‍♂️,,, 

 

[ariotofmyown]

38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I've seen you claim this a few times now.

Who claimed this? Any link please?

Had a quick look and couldn't find anything. Apologies, I may have well got mixed up with someone like toadmeister.

Gupta was claiming we should go for herd immunity last September though and a lot of people died. All sounds pretty shady and got greatly amplified by rich backers.

Maybe this will be referenced in the "imminent" covid enquiry.

 https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/tory-billionaire-bankrolled-herd-immunity-scientist-who-advised-pm-against-lockdown/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/14/herd-immunity-boris-johnson-coronavirus

[Archied]

33 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

How many other viruses have killed 120k plus people in the uk in a year or so?. Without restrictions and vaccines it would have been much higher.

Sorry but you just cannot say that with certainty, restrictions sent our children to school for a day to mix then locked them back indoors at home where spread is supposedly worse , restrictions sent students back to uni then locked them in ,, restrictions sent millions out to work to mix then locked them indoors to spread anything they caught when comming home , restrictions/ policy pushed old people out of hospitals and into care homes where they spread it and didn’t get the medical treatment they needed ,I could go on with more but that will do for now ,,, there are so many variables that you just cannot make the statement you’ve made??‍♂️

[Archied]

19 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Sounds like a pretty big story potentially. Might be worth trying to get a journalist interested.

People get in hot water for that kind of stuff , yes there s plenty of vaccine s we have to be thankful for but there is also some real troubling stuff around some vaccines and the people producing them , it’s out there but most don’t look because it’s labelled anti vax ,conspiracy theory stuff but there really are some troubling money trails , as uttoxeter says , follow the money ,

have a proper sniff around ??‍♂️

[ramit]

10 hours ago, QuitYourJibbaJivin said:

That’s the thing isn’t it, my dad would have had 5 different jabs this year. As it stands they have no idea how long the vaccine will last for in our systems. If passports are brought in You’ll be signing yourself up to a fresh jab every year, or You’ll be barred from society.

You haven't lived until you've been barred from society

[maxjam]

1 hour ago, Wolfie said:

How many other viruses have killed 120k plus people in the uk in a year or so?. Without restrictions and vaccines it would have been much higher.

Would 60k flu deaths over the course of this winter be enough to have a repeat of last winters covid restrictions?

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-07-14/scientists-warn-of-60000-deaths-from-flu-this-winter

 

[jimmyp]

49 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Had a quick look and couldn't find anything. Apologies, I may have well got mixed up with someone like toadmeister.

Gupta was claiming we should go for herd immunity last September though and a lot of people died. All sounds pretty shady and got greatly amplified by rich backers.

Maybe this will be referenced in the "imminent" covid enquiry.

 https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/tory-billionaire-bankrolled-herd-immunity-scientist-who-advised-pm-against-lockdown/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/14/herd-immunity-boris-johnson-coronavirus

Asked what her updated estimate for the Infection Fatality Rate is, Professor Gupta says, “I think that the epidemic has largely come and is on its way out in this country so I think it would be definitely less than 1 in 1000 and probably closer to 1 in 10,000.” That would be somewhere between 0.1% and 0.01%.
May 2020

Since then lots of claims have been made that we are probably very close to herd immunity. But alas unfortunately not it appears. Unfortunately that IFR rate was fairly wide of the mark also. 

[Gone]

I’d say this 4th/5th wave is all a fuss about nothing. The national obsession for this virus is masking the truth as always. Time to give it a rest and stop pushing it on all the front pages day in day out. vaccines are doing their job, game over. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by TexasRam

[alexxxxx]

22 hours ago, maxjam said:

Isn't the vaccine efficacy in the 90% range?  

In the real world the vaccines are very much up to 80/90% protection for serious illness, but much much less for infection. Israel reckon Pfizer is only about 60% effective for infection at the most. 

Single shots are practically useless. 

The numbers seem to vary a lot depending on the studies. 

22 hours ago, maxjam said:

And according to ths Govt paper, they expect 60%-70% of deaths to come from double vaccinated people because that contains the most vuulnerable/elderly group.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/975909/S1182_SPI-M-O_Summary_of_modelling_of_easing_roadmap_step_2_restrictions.pdf

page 10 #32

Unfortunately, as with the flu jab every year there are still thousands of deaths because regardless of jabs, people don't live forever.

 

So how long do we wait? And what do we do with people that don't want the jab?  So long as the NHS isn't under to much pressure, it should be an individual choice whether you get jabbed or not.

I'm not presenting it as an argument to not reopening. I just think it's disingenuous to claim the vaccine is close to being perfect and that it will protect everyone.

Even when vaccinated there is still a large risk for millions of people, particularly if the virus is left to grow quite literally uncontrolled. 

Mathematically it's impossible to reach herd immunity via vaccination, as they are not effective enough, so inevitably many will be infected. 

22 hours ago, maxjam said:

We are allowing nightclubs to open uncontrolled now but insist upon vaccination status by Sept - a point in time that everyone that wants the jab should have had both.  If the concern was to save lives/protect the NHS etc, you would at the very least restrict access now.

I would agree personally. I think we should have waited for all adults to have been fully vaccinated before reopening. Boris seemed like he was talking to naughty children on Monday threatening to take away their toys... They haven't even had the chance to be fully vaccinated yet. 

22 hours ago, maxjam said:

I'd agree with that, but don't think that vaccination passports (and there inevitable creep imo) are the answer.

Like I said there is no perfect solution although I think vaccine certificates will be an ongoing condition for international travel for years. 

[Bob The Badger]

12 hours ago, Andrew3000 said:

Not that article but many over the course of the pandemic. How about the series of stories about people in hospital regretting not having the vaccines. That's fine, but balance it with people who have had adverse reactions, or about how the usual safety protocols have been avoided and there is no long term data on safety or effectiveness. 

I don't watch BBC News on TV, but I do listen to a lot of Radio 5 Live and it's pretty balanced.

They are ALWAYS encouraging people with alternative viewpoints to call in, no matter what it is.

Of course people may be doing that and they don't get on air, but have you stopped to think why they would do that?

The life blood of phone-ins are debate and opposing viewpoints. That is what the presenters and producers want because it gets more listeners. So if they are doing that, they are shooting themselves in the foot. And for what?

The BBC get attacked by the right and left for being biased.

That's a good sign in my eyes.