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Coronavirus part 2. Whitty’s Revenge


TexasRam
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4 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

The vaccines aren't close to 100% effective though, you're making them out to be more effective than they really are. There are millions still vulnerable. 

Isn't the vaccine efficacy in the 90% range?  

And according to ths Govt paper, they expect 60%-70% of deaths to come from double vaccinated people because that contains the most vuulnerable/elderly group.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/975909/S1182_SPI-M-O_Summary_of_modelling_of_easing_roadmap_step_2_restrictions.pdf

page 10 #32

Unfortunately, as with the flu jab every year there are still thousands of deaths because regardless of jabs, people don't live forever.

 

9 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

I don't necessarily disagree with you about being unclear what the long term effects are, as the full trials are not complete but let's not kid ourselves in thinking everyone's protected who needs to be. 

So how long do we wait? And what do we do with people that don't want the jab?  So long as the NHS isn't under to much pressure, it should be an individual choice whether you get jabbed or not.

We are allowing nightclubs to open uncontrolled now but insist upon vaccination status by Sept - a point in time that everyone that wants the jab should have had both.  If the concern was to save lives/protect the NHS etc, you would at the very least restrict access now.

 

12 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

And furthermore, the higher the level of infection in society the higher the chance the vulnerable will be infected.

I don't think there is a good solution. 

I'd agree with that, but don't think that vaccination passports (and there inevitable creep imo) are the answer.

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18 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I think the majority of people know that the care homes debacle caused lots of extra deaths, but not that it proves that Covid is nothing to be concerned about. I think you have your eyes open too wide.

You were talking tactics ,

mistake or tactic ,,? There are just far too many of these day on day for me to consider them mistakes , any local village idiot can see you don’t send kids to school for a day then lock them in ,I’m tired listing these so called mistake s so won’t but they are constant and many 

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31 minutes ago, Archied said:

We’ve been down this route , malaria kills 700 ,000 a year in Africa , hiv 300,000, typhoid and others rather large too as compared to approx 35 000 covid deaths but the priority is to get the covid jabs out there as the continent is on its knees with it 😂😂, wonder who holds the patents on malaria jabs and what the profit margins are nowadays given the time malaria jabs have been around🤷🏻‍♂️

Not sure where the 35k figure comes from, but you cannot catch Malaria, Typhoid or HIV by being near somebody.

The main reason more people aren't given malaria meds and protected against typhoid has very little to do with the pharm companies and patents and a lot to do with logistics and government corruption.

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6 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Not sure where the 35k figure comes from, but you cannot catch Malaria, Typhoid or HIV by being near somebody.

The main reason more people aren't given malaria meds and protected against typhoid has very little to do with the pharm companies and patents and a lot to do with logistics and government corruption.

So just like us in reverse 🤷🏻‍♂️

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57 minutes ago, bcnram said:

I think the point is more that they can still spread it isn’t it?

So the vaccine doesnt stop you from getting it?

It doesn't stop you from spreading it?

And it doesn't protect the person getting it?

So why are they so keen on people to get double jabbed?

Because it lessens the effects and hospitalizations.

In which case why are people so worried about getting it?

The argument just seems to be contradict itself.

 

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34 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

The vaccines aren't close to 100% effective though, you're making them out to be more effective than they really are. There are millions still vulnerable. 

I don't necessarily disagree with you about being unclear what the long term effects are, as the full trials are not complete but let's not kid ourselves in thinking everyone's protected who needs to be. 

And furthermore, the higher the level of infection in society the higher the chance the vulnerable will be infected.

I don't think there is a good solution. 

I thought one dose was 85% and 2 doses 95% or figures in that region?

If they are not effective then it seems pretty pointless forcing them on people who dont need them anyway.

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So you can't go to a crowded nightclub, but you can go to a crowded pub.

Although they aren't ruling that out and as it makes no sense what-so-ever, its just the first step in the drip, drip, drip of additional restrictions the unnvaccinated will face.  Public Transport?  Thats pretty crowded?  What about Supermarkets? 

Have the jab or you're gonna increasingly find life becoming very difficult...

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5 minutes ago, maxjam said:

 

So you can't go to a crowded nightclub, but you can go to a crowded pub.

Although they aren't ruling that out and as it makes no sense what-so-ever, its just the first step in the drip, drip, drip of additional restrictions the unnvaccinated will face.  Public Transport?  Thats pretty crowded?  What about Supermarkets? 

Have the jab or you're gonna increasingly find life becoming very difficult...

People who go to pubs might vote for them again. Very few nightclubbers are ever gonna vote for them.

Newsflash: the people in charge don't know what they are doing. I'm not sure if the state can actually function as required.

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What I seem to be seeing people say, is that we can’t segregate people based on their vaccine status (which is entirely voluntary) but we can segregate the vulnerable (over which people have no choice). 🤔

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10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So the vaccine doesnt stop you from getting it?

It doesn't stop you from spreading it?

And it doesn't protect the person getting it?

So why are they so keen on people to get double jabbed?

Because it lessens the effects and hospitalizations.

In which case why are people so worried about getting it?

The argument just seems to be contradict itself.

I think it says a lot about the current situation that even those of us like our good selves, who usually have no problem finding something to disagree about, are equally baffled by it all.

The nightclub/vaxpass thing is clearly a blunt instrument to try and drive up vaccination rates amongst young adults. It's so mind-bendingly illogical in every other way. But it's a very bad move to try and coerce people into having it by threatening to remove their ability to have fun

 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, jimmyp said:

What I seem to be seeing people say, is that we can’t segregate people based on their vaccine status (which is entirely voluntary) but we can segregate the vulnerable (over which people have no choice). 🤔

Really, I’ve not seen anybody saying those considered vulnerable have to adhere to any rules /laws ,,

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Personally I don’t really care who can or cannot go into a nightclub, but can see the sense in the government bringing in the restrictions. I can also see the sense in bringing in the same rules for Stadiums with packed concourses like Pride Park. 
At the same time, I understand that some young men are scared of needles in case it hurts. 🤣
 

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9 minutes ago, bcnram said:

Personally I don’t really care who can or cannot go into a nightclub, but can see the sense in the government bringing in the restrictions. I can also see the sense in bringing in the same rules for Stadiums with packed concourses like Pride Park. 
At the same time, I understand that some young men are scared of needles in case it hurts. 🤣
 

Are you one of the sage behavioural scientists? If not there’s a job there , your skills will fit right in😂😂😂😂😂

Edited by Archied
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52 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

But it's a very bad move to try and coerce people into having it by threatening to remove their ability to have fun

People go to nightclubs to have fun? ducking hell!

I get that people go to a nightclub in the hopes of finding someone to have fun with later on in the evening, but fun in the nightclub itself (excluding occasional moments of fun in a toilet cubicle)? 

Personally I'd rase them all to the ground and imprison anyone who thinks of them as an enjoyable place to be for their crimes against taste, then we wouldn't have this problem with vaccine passports to contend with.

Edited by Coconut
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2 hours ago, rammieib said:

Government data only goes out to the 14th July. When is your average of 42% from?

 

From yesterday's data release on data.gov.uk. But just checking now, I misquoted, it is actually 41% not 42%. 

And see that chart too.  Those 'dcreases' you mention are actually insignificant in terms of the overall exponential growth curve. 

image.png.3748152a6a45baadaf3eafb33246ac7d.png

 

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14 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

From yesterday's data release on data.gov.uk. But just checking now, I misquoted, it is actually 41% not 42%. 

And see that chart too.  Those 'dcreases' you mention are actually insignificant in terms of the overall exponential growth curve. 

image.png.3748152a6a45baadaf3eafb33246ac7d.png

 

What did the mathematician do when he was constipated?

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8 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

From yesterday's data release on data.gov.uk. But just checking now, I misquoted, it is actually 41% not 42%. 

And see that chart too.  Those 'dcreases' you mention are actually insignificant in terms of the overall exponential growth curve. 

image.png.3748152a6a45baadaf3eafb33246ac7d.png

 

I think we are arguing the same thing and not the same thing. It's the interpretation of the word exponential - to me, the increase seen in the past few weeks is not exponential.

Todays number will be interesting - even if its reported, and not case date, but if its below 50k then I think we are definitely seeing a slowing down, if its over 50k we are still seeing a big (not exponential) increase.

If its below 40k, then we will even see the 7-day rate decrease! (OK, I'm not hopeful of it being below 40k but I am hopeful of being under 50k)

 

 

 

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