PLAYERS OUT OF CONTRACT AT THE END OF THE SEASON

[Ram-Alf]

13 hours ago, Dimmu said:

Keogh will be free, right?

Get Hefele or some other German next to him and at last we would have what this forum has wanted for ages...

 

With Keogh having his barnet coloured, Perphaps the new German who could play next to him would be Herr Flick.

[Tyler Durden]

14 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Going to be a challenging close season, in theory we’ll need:

2 x CB

1 DM ( dependant on Bielik’s injury) 

1 X AM

1 x CF

1 x LW/RW

without a takeover and cash injection, Wayne may have to sacrifice a asset or two. I worry for next season if we don’t get investment 

Just the sheer numbers is going to be a barrier to that happening finances or not.

We need to prioritise unfortunately.

[Sparkle]

15 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Going to be a challenging close season, in theory we’ll need:

2 x CB

1 DM ( dependant on Bielik’s injury) 

1 X AM

1 x CF

1 x LW/RW

without a takeover and cash injection, Wayne may have to sacrifice a asset or two. I worry for next season if we don’t get investment 

I think we need more than that to be honest 

[Ghost of Clough]

15 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Going to be a challenging close season, in theory we’ll need:

2 x CB

1 DM ( dependant on Bielik’s injury) 

1 X AM

1 x CF

1 x LW/RW

without a takeover and cash injection, Wayne may have to sacrifice a asset or two. I worry for next season if we don’t get investment 

With Lawrence, Jozwiak, Ibe and Sibley, I don't believe we'll be in for a winger (if it looks likely Ibe will be available to play next season)

I would however say we need a third CB. We'll be after 3CBs, RB, CM, AM and a CF. 2 of those CBs and an AM should be for the first 11, with the rest as backup roles.

Extending the deals for Wisdom and Waghorn would fill the backup spots at CB and CF.

Get someone like Johnson in as cheap short-term cover at DM.

Given the expected game time for the backup RB and CM I'd be happy enoigh with McDonald/Ebosele and JBrown/Watson stepping in for the rare game. Assuming we'll try to get rid of Marriott again, Stretton should be good enough to be 3rd choice CF.

For the CBs and AM we could get Nathaniel Phillips (Liverpool), Kevin Long (Burnley) and Nick Powell (Stoke) all on frees. Emiliano (Brentford), Bernard (Mam City) could be other options at AM for free.

[jimtastic56]

I will be surprised if Wisdom and Waghorn are with us next season . Like Martin and Johnson they are at the stage where they need a bumper pay day contract and they won’t get it from us. Also it would have been agreed by now like CKR. So we get in loan player that teams don’t want or Wazza will have to do what Lampard did and use his connections to get 3 Prem class players in.

[rammieib]

11 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

I will be surprised if Wisdom and Waghorn are with us next season . Like Martin and Johnson they are at the stage where they need a bumper pay day contract and they won’t get it from us. Also it would have been agreed by now like CKR. So we get in loan player that teams don’t want or Wazza will have to do what Lampard did and use his connections to get 3 Prem class players in.

Don’t think there will be many bumper pay deals on the market place right now.

Someone like Waggy will Probably be similar to Martin - contract length is more important. Remember he has two kids - one new and one in school. To move his family again is a big uproar.

[Jase116]

Certainly I think most would take Mowett, I personally would like Ashley Fletcher, I know he is not as physical as out Kaz, but technically a very good player, only worry is that he hasn’t kicked on as much as he should have.

I certainly think it will be a very interesting summer.

[RamNut]

I don’t see that we need a right back. byrne / McDonald / ebosele is ok

Central defence is the biggest void to appear since the Guatemala sinkhole. Edmundson looks a good player and could be a good signing if we can get him. Wisdom - although not great in the air - has played well at times and might yet warrant a further deal. But we need more. 

I think we’re ok in central midfield.

upfront, if everyone was firing on all cylinders we would fine. Unfortunately they’re not. Another deal for waggy would not be a surprise. 

Since we seem incapable of spotting wingers, I’m not holding my breath there. 

 

[cheron85]

Do we have any updates on Wisdom or Waghorn?

With the dire state we're in it would be daft to let two senior players go for nothing in the summer - Replacing Wisdom would set us back a few million in this climate and replacing Waggers would run us at least a couple - Surely a 2-3 year contract for each of them would cost us less than a replacement player?

Also - Do we even know whether we're gonna be able to sign players in the summer? Having just seen a window come and go where we've only been able to land loan players (half of whom aren't getting started) I'm looking at the summer with trepidation 

[mwram1973]

2 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Do we have any updates on Wisdom or Waghorn?

With the dire state we're in it would be daft to let two senior players go for nothing in the summer - Replacing Wisdom would set us back a few million in this climate and replacing Waggers would run us at least a couple - Surely a 2-3 year contract for each of them would cost us less than a replacement player?

Also - Do we even know whether we're gonna be able to sign players in the summer? Having just seen a window come and go where we've only been able to land loan players (half of whom aren't getting started) I'm looking at the summer with trepidation 

I think it comes down to a few things imo.

I'd certainly give them a 1 year extension, especially waghorn who hasn't done anything to warrant a new contract imo. 

I think the jan window loans were because the takeover wasn't done. Hopefully the new interested parties can get something done before summer so Rooney will then, hopefully have a budget. I think quite a few will leave this club at the end of the season and hopefully start to see his own squad starting to take shape.

 

[cheron85]

2 minutes ago, mwram1973 said:

I think the jan window loans were because the takeover wasn't done. Hopefully the new interested parties can get something done before summer so Rooney will then, hopefully have a budget. 

Oh I fully agree that's what happened - I even wondered if a couple of these loans were with a view to a permanent

However - Rooney then hasn't used them much AND we're working on the assumption any new takeover will go through - Which after the last one I have no faith in whatsoever 

We also don't know if anyone coming in will make funds available for players

I'd rather not take the risk - I still find it utter madness we let Martin go when an extra year (it seems) would have secured him - Feels like we're gonna end up in the same situation again with Wisdom and Waggers

[VulcanRam]

On 06/03/2021 at 13:49, RamNut said:

I don’t see that we need a right back. byrne / McDonald / ebosele is ok

Central defence is the biggest void to appear since the Guatemala sinkhole. Edmundson looks a good player and could be a good signing if we can get him. Wisdom - although not great in the air - has played well at times and might yet warrant a further deal. But we need more. 

I think we’re ok in central midfield.

upfront, if everyone was firing on all cylinders we would fine. Unfortunately they’re not. Another deal for waggy would not be a surprise. 

Since we seem incapable of spotting wingers, I’m not holding my breath there. 

 

That's a fair summary, though if we don't keep Gregory or Marriott we definitely need another striker. On the issue of wingers, we should not be even considering talking about them seeing as we don't play with them.

We play with inside forwards who are deliberately positioned to play on the opposite side to their "stronger" foot, which demands they cut infield and therefore allow space on the outside for the fullbacks/wingbacks.

The last proper "winger" Derby had was probably Gary Teale or perhaps Ibe 1 who tended to hug the touchline.  All the others were either midfielders or strikers asked to start in a wider position.

 

 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

10 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

That's a fair summary, though if we don't keep Gregory or Marriott we definitely need another striker. On the issue of wingers, we should not be even considering talking about them seeing as we don't play with them.

We play with inside forwards who are deliberately positioned to play on the opposite side to their "stronger" foot, which demands they cut infield and therefore allow space on the outside for the fullbacks/wingbacks.

The last proper "winger" Derby had was probably Gary Teale or perhaps Ibe 1 who tended to hug the touchline.  All the others were either midfielders or strikers asked to start in a wider position.

 

 

I think the traditional winger role doesn’t exist as much now, used to be in traditional 4-4-2 formations. Now, if there are 3 up, the ‘wingers’ are expected to come inside a lot more otherwise the central striker is too isolated. Also, the role of the modern day full back seems to cover this role too if they have pace/ fit enough. 

[Gone]

43 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

That's a fair summary, though if we don't keep Gregory or Marriott we definitely need another striker. On the issue of wingers, we should not be even considering talking about them seeing as we don't play with them.

We play with inside forwards who are deliberately positioned to play on the opposite side to their "stronger" foot, which demands they cut infield and therefore allow space on the outside for the fullbacks/wingbacks.

The last proper "winger" Derby had was probably Gary Teale or perhaps Ibe 1 who tended to hug the touchline.  All the others were either midfielders or strikers asked to start in a wider position.

 

 

 

31 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

I think the traditional winger role doesn’t exist as much now, used to be in traditional 4-4-2 formations. Now, if there are 3 up, the ‘wingers’ are expected to come inside a lot more otherwise the central striker is too isolated. Also, the role of the modern day full back seems to cover this role too if they have pace/ fit enough. 

I think if we could find two traditional wingers (if they still exist) and a goal scoring forward partnership (yes two Centre forwards) then we would rip this league to shreds. The now predictable 433 with inside forwards cutting in, has been sussed plus we don’t have any in the squad prolific enough in front of goal to make it work anyway. 
 

I’d love to see 4-4-2, with a holding midfielder and number 10, two wingers and two Centre forwards ??⚽️??

[SKRam]

Apologies if mentioned, but division we’re playing in will be the biggest factor after any budget offered to manager. League 1 and I’d love a fit Marriott...... I’ll get me coat 

[VulcanRam]

18 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

 

I think if we could find two traditional wingers (if they still exist) and a goal scoring forward partnership (yes two Centre forwards) then we would rip this league to shreds. The now predictable 433 with inside forwards cutting in, has been sussed plus we don’t have any in the squad prolific enough in front of goal to make it work anyway. 
 

I’d love to see 4-4-2, with a holding midfielder and number 10, two wingers and two Centre forwards ??⚽️??

Which reminds me of a day out at Crystal Palace a few years back, Nigel Clough was the manager, and a section of the away end singing "We pay your wages, play 4-4-2". It will always go down in the pantheon of ridiculous and poo chants.

[Gone]

3 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

Which reminds me of a day out at Crystal Palace a few years back, Nigel Clough was the manager, and a section of the away end singing "We pay your wages, play 4-4-2". It will always go down in the pantheon of ridiculous and poo chants.

I wholeheartedly support that chant ?

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

Do we have any updates on Wisdom or Waghorn?

With the dire state we're in it would be daft to let two senior players go for nothing in the summer - Replacing Wisdom would set us back a few million in this climate and replacing Waggers would run us at least a couple - Surely a 2-3 year contract for each of them would cost us less than a replacement player?

If we keep Wisdom and Waghorn, it would be with a view to them being backups and then leaving for nothing at the end of their extended deals. Let's assume £10k pw each which would be at the higher end of our pay scale for backups nowadays. c£500k each to keep them on for another year. Just to restate a key point, no resale value on with of those players.

A better strategy would be to find a younger player for £500k on £6-8k. The types of players who come in as backups initially with a view to them pushing on as starters. It'll cost a bit more in the first year, but the players will have resale value meaning we'd be better off in the long run. If it doesn't work out, then we'd recoup what we paid out.

I'm thinking of the likes of Evans and Holmes here... both sold for fees similar to what we bought them for. Both signed as backups with a chance of them becoming first choice. Holmes almost succeeded with that before falling away. Even better, we should be looking for freebies instead to perform the same role.

1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

Also - Do we even know whether we're gonna be able to sign players in the summer? Having just seen a window come and go where we've only been able to land loan players (half of whom aren't getting started) I'm looking at the summer with trepidation 

We'll be in the summer window where a number of players will be out of contract. It's a different type of market to the winter window.

At CB, I'd be looking at the likes of Long (Burnley), McIntyre (Reading), Pearson (Luton), Tom Lees (Sheff W), Burke (Hull)
At RB, Kieron Freeman (Swansea), Nyambe (Blackburn)
At CF, Dursun (Darmstadt)

I imagine all of those listed would be better value than Wisdom and Waghorn.

[Rambalin]

25 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

If we keep Wisdom and Waghorn, it would be with a view to them being backups and then leaving for nothing at the end of their extended deals. Let's assume £10k pw each which would be at the higher end of our pay scale for backups nowadays. c£500k each to keep them on for another year. Just to restate a key point, no resale value on with of those players.

A better strategy would be to find a younger player for £500k on £6-8k. The types of players who come in as backups initially with a view to them pushing on as starters. It'll cost a bit more in the first year, but the players will have resale value meaning we'd be better off in the long run. If it doesn't work out, then we'd recoup what we paid out.

I'm thinking of the likes of Evans and Holmes here... both sold for fees similar to what we bought them for. Both signed as backups with a chance of them becoming first choice. Holmes almost succeeded with that before falling away. Even better, we should be looking for freebies instead to perform the same role.

We'll be in the summer window where a number of players will be out of contract. It's a different type of market to the winter window.

At CB, I'd be looking at the likes of Long (Burnley), McIntyre (Reading), Pearson (Luton), Tom Lees (Sheff W), Burke (Hull)
At RB, Kieron Freeman (Swansea), Nyambe (Blackburn)
At CF, Dursun (Darmstadt)

I imagine all of those listed would be better value than Wisdom and Waghorn.

Looking at your list of cb and rb Wisdom is head and shoulders better than any of them. 

[Ghost of Clough]

56 minutes ago, Rambalin said:

Looking at your list of cb and rb Wisdom is head and shoulders better than any of them. 

Wisdom is a very poor defender. He is exceptionally poor in the air, and has a lack of awareness of players around him.

Looking at aerial duels won, Wisdom ranks as 115th best out of all Championship players to have started a game at CB (out of 142). What makes that stat even worse, a large number of fullbacks filling in at CB are ahead of him.
Fair enough, a lot of the 142 to have played at CB have only done so for a small number of games, so they haven't played enough games for the numbers to be a fair representation. Excluding all to have started fewer than 10 games at CB, Wisdom ranks 74th out of 83. I don't know about you, but that's not a CB I would want in my side. Here are how a few other players rank:

2 - Clarke
28 - Davies
42 - Lees
43 - McIntyre
44 - Pearson
56 - Keogh
68 - Evans
74 - Wisdom

If we want to continue with Byrne at RB, we cannot afford to keep someone as poor as Wisdom in the RCB spot. Nyambe is better both defensively and offensively that Wisdom - aerial battles, tackles, interceptions, blocks, dribbles, key passes, etc... better in almost every single way. Freeman is also better than Wisdom offensively.