Tyler Durden Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, IslandExile said: After all the stick recently, thanks are surely due to Mel for some how or other, enabling Rooney to bring in the loanees that he wanted. Well done sir, always a Ram. ? I used the word stick in a previous post when I stated that in my opinion a lot of unfair criticism was directed at me having the audacity to post anything semi- uncomplimentary about MM so as you've used the same descriptor as myself am pondering when does fair comment become stick by the same metric. I've used the word myself rightly or wrongly, which has a very emotive ring to it, and on reflection was probably a bit over the top which I recognise now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Think the business today has genuinely been fantastic. I mean let’s be honest; what would you prefer us do. Panic buy and overpay? or get quality talent on loans to get us through the rest of the season? This allows us to rebuild in the summer when hopefully we’ll have a clearer picture of who our new owner(s) would be and if not, whether Mel has the financial backing available to give to Rooney. Really excited for the rest of this season now, and even more excited for next. Cheers Mel!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 I'm sure Rooney will say he got the targets he wanted, but his comments from the weekend stated there would be a mix of loans and permanents coming in. Maybe there could still be a free agent or two joining in the near future, but to me it's just one big panic to get numbers in at the last minute as a result of the embargo caused by Mel failing to pay the players (again). Like CKR the players could turn out to be real gems, but on paper we've brought in an academy lad with near enough no senior experience, a young defender who's senior experience mostly comes from League 2 level, a midfielder who at the age of 22 has made less than 10 senior appearances and a couple of players who couldn't get game time at fellow Championship clubs. I'm relieved we've managed to get some players in and do believe if they have the right attitude they'll help us remain in the division, but after the embargo due to the wages problem, the takeover mess and all the other crap that's cropped up in recent months, I'm in no rush to thank Mel just because he's allowed Rooney to get some cheap loans in which were probably funded by players departing. ? Let's hope this never-ending takeover saga finally does come to a conclusion before the end of the season because as it stands we have just 13 senior players contracted past 2021 and 1 of them is Bielik who most likely won't be available for a while. If we're still in this mess come pre-season it probably won't be backup players and young talent who haven't reached the first team leaving to fund any new signings, it will be Knight, Sibley, Buchanan etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tram Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Rammy03 said: I'm happy because we haven't sold any important players. We've strengthened the team and now have a bigger squad. If someone gets injured, we're not in trouble. However, I am massively concerned about next season. 6 loans is ridiculous when you think about it. And then you've got players who will be out of contract. It's very risky. Hopefully something happens with the takeover and we can get ourselves sorted because there is a huge summer window coming up for us. The post above suggested permanent players are better. I was wondering if that might be the way it has always been, but I wondered if permanent players are obviously better. I genuinely don't know! Do loans work out cheaper than signing permanent players - or more expensive - or does it work out roughly the same cost? Would it be a bad model to have more loan players? Are there advantages in loan players? Perhaps they're more hungry. Less risk of them settling down into bad habits. Easier to offload if they're not performing. And, we can always make the very best loans permanent: to be the core, and backbone of the squad. I genuinely don't know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 I think it’s hard to tell right now how successful this window has been. We have retained Knight, Sibley, Buchanan, Bird, Jozwiak and Bielik. I think that’s the major positive to take away. We still have the young core of the team to work around. We have brought in a striker and that gives us more options, more flexibility, and eases the burden on Kazim. Gregory gives us the option of playing with a front two, he’s very much a player that will fit Rooney’s ethos, and may pop up with some important goals too. Besides that, it’s really hard to judge. Roberts is the one everyone’s hoping will be the standout, but there’s reasonable danger he could be just as inconsistent and frustrating as Lawrence and Waghorn, maybe even more so given his well-documented talent and potential. But at the very least, it takes the pressure off Ibe so he can focus on his recovery. Mengi and Baningime are two very inexperienced young players and probably the most interesting signings. The pedigree is there with both of them coming through Premier League academies, but we don’t know how they will respond to the demands of football at this level or how much they will actually play. Clarke, Wisdom, Knight and Shinnie have formed the core of the team this season, so both Mengi and Baningime will have their work cut out to get game time and make their mark, unless we start a rotation policy. They could be breakout stars or peripheral figures - it’s anyone’s guess. As for Edmundson, I am not really sure where he fits in, other than fleshing out the squad and replacing the depth lost through the departures of Evans and Te Wierik. It’s the kind of transfer window that leaves more questions than answers, to be quite honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 30 minutes ago, Ken Tram said: The post above suggested permanent players are better. I was wondering if that might be the way it has always been, but I wondered if permanent players are obviously better. I genuinely don't know! Do loans work out cheaper than signing permanent players - or more expensive - or does it work out roughly the same cost? Would it be a bad model to have more loan players? Are there advantages in loan players? Perhaps they're more hungry. Less risk of them settling down into bad habits. Easier to offload if they're not performing. And, we can always make the very best loans permanent: to be the core, and backbone of the squad. I genuinely don't know! It just appears as a sticking plaster which due to the mess the club are currently in is precisely that and is a mixture of a short term fix until we do manage to get ourselves out of the detritus and a try before you buy scenario. Current circumstances dictate us having to go down this route. But as you've quite rightly stated the other benefits of a loan player is you can return to sender if not hacking it or likewise if they get injured. The downside is that it's becoming more prevalent to have to pay a loan fee to secure the services of a player on top of paying their wages so it isn't necessarily such a clear differential anymore between a loanee and a permanent signing. Given our track record with handing our exorbitant contracts on massive timescales it's little wonder we are now looking at cultivating the loan market more as clearly that was unsustainable which is reinforced by our current financial woes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tram Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 I guess ... the "value" of both options (permanent players and loan players) has to be fairly equal ... otherwise one of the two systems would die out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tram Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 If the "value" of both the loan market and the permanent market is roughly the same ... ... then (I guess, obviously) the key factor is getting the right players that the team needs (that the manager wants), whichever market they come from ... ... and it doesn't matter whether a player is permanent or on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tram Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Perhaps the warning sign about only getting loan players is that we have not had access to all of the players that we might need, who are only available on the permanent market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwram1973 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 6 hours ago, i-Ram said: I am not unhappy with the business done, and certainly I am pleased we held on to the 4 you mention, but I don’t feel that we need to go overboard with praise to Mel Morris when more important matters relating to our finances, and the potential sale, are being kept from us. Moodhoover ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 None of the players going out significantly weaken the squad and we have addressed most of our glaring weaknesses for now. Its a very sensible day of business that will only really become clear in the future. If Mel stays and we sign a couple of them permanently and go again in the summer that's good. Likewise if someone buys the club then they come in with a cleaner slate to work with and relegation seemingly pretty avoidable now. If Mel doesn't want to invest then we have just put off the moment till we sell off the crown jewels which would be very worrying. So a really surprisingly busy day which gives me hope but promises nothing. I'm being glass half full today and just hope now we can get more information about the future of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 9 hours ago, Tyler Durden said: I used the word stick in a previous post when I stated that in my opinion a lot of unfair criticism was directed at me having the audacity to post anything semi- uncomplimentary about MM so as you've used the same descriptor as myself am pondering when does fair comment become stick by the same metric. I've used the word myself rightly or wrongly, which has a very emotive ring to it, and on reflection was probably a bit over the top which I recognise now. Just for clarity: it was not me that gave you any stick over the use of the word 'stick'. Perhaps I should have used the word 'criticism' in my post but I do think some of it - not from you, I hasten to add - was beyond mere criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 11 hours ago, TomSaint said: Have we sold them players to cover part of the loanees salary? brill signings but gutted we didn’t sign any permanent players Based on some of the signings we have made in recent times I am not gutted not to have made any permanent signings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, IslandExile said: Just for clarity: it was not me that gave you any stick over the use of the word 'stick'. Perhaps I should have used the word 'criticism' in my post but I do think some of it - not from you, I hasten to add - was beyond mere criticism. Yes absolutely sorry wasn't insinuating that for a moment, it was just the choice of the word stick which had synergies with my use of the word which prompted my reply. I've already said maybe I was a bit melodramatic in my use of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney1991 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Just watched the highlight reel Derby put of max bird from Bristol game and just as important as signings is that pitch. I have never know the pitch to be as bad to being a disgrace. I’ve been going pride park since 1997 with my dad and he’s always said look how lovely the pitch is it’s like a carpet. Now he would be going eww look at the pitch it’s like a swamp maybe we wanted to make the manager feel more at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 53 minutes ago, Barney1991 said: Just watched the highlight reel Derby put of max bird from Bristol game and just as important as signings is that pitch. I have never know the pitch to be as bad to being a disgrace. I’ve been going pride park since 1997 with my dad and he’s always said look how lovely the pitch is it’s like a carpet. Now he would be going eww look at the pitch it’s like a swamp maybe we wanted to make the manager feel more at home? It’s missing that army of people wandering around with pitchforks at half time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 55 minutes ago, Barney1991 said: Just watched the highlight reel Derby put of max bird from Bristol game and just as important as signings is that pitch. I have never know the pitch to be as bad to being a disgrace. I’ve been going pride park since 1997 with my dad and he’s always said look how lovely the pitch is it’s like a carpet. Now he would be going eww look at the pitch it’s like a swamp maybe we wanted to make the manager feel more at home? If your dad is a long time Derby fan, he’d remember the Baseball Ground pitch, and he’d remember it fondly. Us older fans aren’t too precious about the state of the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney1991 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 19 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: If your dad is a long time Derby fan, he’d remember the Baseball Ground pitch, and he’d remember it fondly. Us older fans aren’t too precious about the state of the pitch. 19 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: If your dad is a long time Derby fan, he’d remember the Baseball Ground pitch, and he’d remember it fondly. Us older fans aren’t too precious about the state of the pitch. Yup he’s been going last 50 years he loved the baseball ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 46 minutes ago, Barney1991 said: Yup he’s been going last 50 years he loved the baseball ground Ask him about the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 46 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Ask him about the beach/Somme. Fixed that for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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