Rams@Millers 3/2/21 - Matchday thread

[Curtains]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

From what I did see - ramstv permitting - they outran us. Their closing down was excellent. We looked over impressed with yourselves. 
 

Ok lol

 

[Ramdale]

Think some of the criticism of Rooney is harsh. If Gregory scores the sitter, we likely win the game 1-0 and Rooney looks like a genius. Very fine margins. They are a difficult team for us to play against and the 1st goal was always going to be the deciding factor.

[chadlad]

2 minutes ago, Ramdale said:

Think some of the criticism of Rooney is harsh. If Gregory scores the sitter, we likely win the game 1-0 and Rooney looks like a genius. Very fine margins. They are a difficult team for us to play against and the 1st goal was always going to be the deciding factor.

Fully agree with this, Gregory scores and we come away with a 1-0 win.

A few minutes later at the other end Wisdom gets caught underneath the ball, and it’s game over. Until we have another dominant CB in the side to partner Clarke, we will continue to be bullied by route one teams like Rovram.

Hopefully the new signing from Rangers can quickly get up to speed.

 

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, S8TY said:

...

I don’t think what Rooney has done is negative. I can see the logic behind it and it has worked on many levels. We needed a platform.

But I think we established that platform 7-8 games ago. Now we need to look at how the team can evolve and in particular be more effective against the weaker sides in the division.

Under Rooney we have won three out of nine games against teams currently outside the top 10, so that says keeping it tight and prioritising defence has to be a consideration against some teams, but not a uniform approach.

After all, no-one would care that we have dropped 20 points under Rooney if the points we were picking up had a ripple effect on the teams around us.

If we had beaten Rotherham twice and Sheff Wed instead of Swansea, Bournemouth and Bristol City, we’d have exactly the same points but the relegation picture would look a whole lot different. People say it doesn’t matter where the points come from, but when you can put a blanket over 7-8 teams, it really does.

Especially now Bielik is injured, I don’t think the way we are playing is sustainable with this group of players. It is very reliant on us having the perfect game and making no mistakes in either box and also riding our luck in a number of ways.

Is it realistic to expect Marshall to make a match winning save in every game? Is it realistic to expect Kazim to take the one chance he might have in a game? Is it realistic to expect Clarke and Wisdom to defend like it’s 80s calcio every game? I don’t think it is. Sooner or later the opposition will punish you.

So like you’ve alluded to, I think Rooney needs to turn his attention to the attack and try and find a way to get more joy out of our attacking players, because without the insurance of Bielik, we are going to need to win games 2-1 and draw games 2-2 and so on.

Of course Lawrence has been injured and Ibe has been struggling with depression. But how many good games have Waghorn, Jozwiak and Sibley had in recent months? Something has to change there.

[Coneheadjohn]

I slinked into work this morning hoping to avoid any Rotherham fans,got to 12.30 to be greeted by one coming in all smug in his RUFC beanie with a big grin on his face.

I tried to think of something smooth nonchalant and witty to hit him with unfortunately it came out as,

duck off you inbred Bamford!

 

[TuffLuff]

2 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Put it this way .  If that was a paying punter who'd upgraded to a box for him and a few mates, they'd have been out the door .  Saw a Brighton fan chucked out one of the Derby boxes once for far less. I could hear him screaming abuse particularly about off sides all game.

Simplest thing to do is give him some back in the way of a goal. Gregory had a great chance to shut him up.  Didn't happen though.

100% agree and it’s been a long term issue

[Rampage]

We were second best to Rotherham. Lee could have possibly won the game for us but we were outplayed. A tougher refereeb, booking their players early on would have helped us. It does not have any bearing on our next game which will be very hard to win. If you cannot score two goals in a game it will always be difficult. Not enough creativity in our midfield. Bielik is irreplaceable. Above all, too many half chances are being missed.

[angieram]

3 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I don’t think what Rooney has done is negative. I can see the logic behind it and it has worked on many levels. We needed a platform.

But I think we established that platform 7-8 games ago. Now we need to look at how the team can evolve and in particular be more effective against the weaker sides in the division.

Under Rooney we have won three out of nine games against teams currently outside the top 10, so that says keeping it tight and prioritising defence has to be a consideration against some teams, but not a uniform approach.

After all, no-one would care that we have dropped 20 points under Rooney if the points we were picking up had a ripple effect on the teams around us.

If we had beaten Rotherham twice and Sheff Wed instead of Swansea, Bournemouth and Bristol City, we’d have exactly the same points but the relegation picture would look a whole lot different. People say it doesn’t matter where the points come from, but when you can put a blanket over 7-8 teams, it really does.

Especially now Bielik is injured, I don’t think the way we are playing is sustainable with this group of players. It is very reliant on us having the perfect game and making no mistakes in either box and also riding our luck in a number of ways.

Is it realistic to expect Marshall to make a match winning save in every game? Is it realistic to expect Kazim to take the one chance he might have in a game? Is it realistic to expect Clarke and Wisdom to defend like it’s 80s calcio every game? I don’t think it is. Sooner or later the opposition will punish you.

So like you’ve alluded to, I think Rooney needs to turn his attention to the attack and try and find a way to get more joy out of our attacking players, because without the insurance of Bielik, we are going to need to win games 2-1 and draw games 2-2 and so on.

Of course Lawrence has been injured and Ibe has been struggling with depression. But how many good games have Waghorn, Jozwiak and Sibley had in recent months? Something has to change there.

I have been thinking along similar lines all day. Our defence has been pilloried on here again last night but really, for the amount of ball we had again, we ought to have been creating more.

It puts a lot of stress on the defence match after match when the most you're going to have going for you is a single goal lead. 

So I agree, we need to look further forward, and to the way the team is set up, to start to improve this.

The one thing that I would disagree with you on is listing Sibley amongst those not performing up front. He played a key role in the 4-0 against Birmingham, wasn't the only one not to perform against Sheffield Wednesday, yet found himself dropped back to the bench again after that. He's had far fewer minutes than others offering much less, in my opinion.

[Curtains]

15 minutes ago, angieram said:

I have been thinking along similar lines all day. Our defence has been pilloried on here again last night but really, for the amount of ball we had again, we ought to have been creating more.

It puts a lot of stress on the defence match after match when the most you're going to have going for you is a single goal lead. 

So I agree, we need to look further forward, and to the way the team is set up, to start to improve this.

The one thing that I would disagree with you on is listing Sibley amongst those not performing up front. He played a key role in the 4-0 against Birmingham, wasn't the only one not to perform against Sheffield Wednesday, yet found himself dropped back to the bench again after that. He's had far fewer minutes than others offering much less, in my opinion.

Sibley did nothing other than give a goal away in first Rotherham game and I know he came on late for Shinnie.

Thought Wayne got that wrong  though 

 

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, Rampage said:

We were second best to Rotherham. Lee could have possibly won the game for us but we were outplayed

Knight and Shinnie were below par and Bird not at his best. But the first half was drawn for me (squeaky last 10 mins) and we were the stronger in the second until the goal, which obviously gave them confidence. Agree with those who say that Marshall should have done better to avoid the goal.  We probably needed a different formation to handle their press. In retrospect Rooney should have postponed the fixture given the new blood but that's 20 20 hindsight. The big question is what reaction we see on Saturday. Still don't think we're close to going down

[angieram]

18 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Sibley did nothing other than give a goal away in first Rotherham game and I know he came on late for Shinnie.

Thought Wayne got that wrong  though 

 

Yes, you're right, Curtains. But I would rather he would be the one being substituted off in a game we are already leading in, than being brought on at 0-0 with only a few minutes to effect the game.

He's not an impact sub and if we're going to get the best out of him, he needs time in the team to develop his confidence. 

[Curtains]

10 minutes ago, angieram said:

Yes, you're right, Curtains. But I would rather he would be the one being substituted off in a game we are already leading in, than being brought on at 0-0 with only a few minutes to effect the game.

He's not an impact sub and if we're going to get the best out of him, he needs time in the team to develop his confidence. 

Yes but if the manager doesn’t trust him to be aggressive in the right way he won’t play him. 

There is a talented player yes but he has to apply himself correctly and that’s not meant to be criticizing him .

He has to track back effectively as well like Tom Lawrence does. 
 

I want the lad to succeed and if he reads this the biggest advise I’d give him would be cut out the silly fouls and you will be a big player for us.

I am not saying cut out all his aggression but do it in a competitive good way .

Referees these days are not like in the past .

PS He definitely not an impact substitute he’s a player that does better if he starts  

What position in the team does he fit . Is he a 10 !

 

 

 

[angieram]

49 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Yes but if the manager doesn’t trust him to be aggressive in the right way he won’t play him. 

There is a talented player yes but he has to apply himself correctly and that’s not meant to be criticizing him .

He has to track back effectively as well like Tom Lawrence does. 
 

I want the lad to succeed and if he reads this the biggest advise I’d give him would be cut out the silly fouls and you will be a big player for us.

I am not saying cut out all his aggression but do it in a competitive good way .

Referees these days are not like in the past .

PS He definitely not an impact substitute he’s a player that does better if he starts  

What position in the team does he fit . Is he a 10 !

 

 

 

I think we agree. I have said similar in the Sibley thread.

To get back to @Jourdan's point, we do need to find a way to be more creative, whether that's through Sibley or A.N.Other, or the pressure on the defence will keep building. 

I would like Rooney to be a bit braver, and go for it! 

[Dan_Ram]

At least I got my money back for the dodgy stream. Refund should be going through in 24-48 hours ?

[LeedsCityRam]

Couldn't face posting last night - such a grim result & if I'm honest, I didn't really want to watch beyond half-time as the match was so bad. Was surprised we didn't concede just before half-time & the eventual defeat seemed entirely in keeping with the game as a whole. Bullied all over the pitch & a resounding test of character...that we failed.

Some thoughts;

• Firstly & controversially, credit to Rotherham. Why should they play football? Why should their chairman stay quiet? They spend their lives trying to survive in our division whilst we habitually chuck a few million at a bright young thing or a loan player far too good for this division. I'm not surprised they enjoyed it - instead of getting annoyed by it & whining about it in interviews, we should motivate ourselves to beat it.
• Knight & Shinnie - how we chortled as they ran the legs off oppo midfielders in recent weeks. They were utterly shown up last night & frankly we only need one of them. Its killing our attacking effort having more than one of them in the team
• Rooney - subs were spots on I thought & Gregory should have won us the game but that was largely in spite of a formation & tactics that were identical to the home game against them. We should have been losing comfortably at that point & its poor to try exactly the same game plan when it failed so badly the first time. Slow play + too many touches = Rotherham sweet spot.  See point above - you can't play ponderous midfielders who aren't comfortable in possession
• Patrick Roberts - liked what I saw. His great touch set Byrne away for Gregory's big chance. Lot more to come from him

Overall, a grim day at the office but our fate is in our hands. Lets go again Derby - another 3 wins on the spin, this gets quickly forgotten & then some clowns can start another playoff thread ?

[VulcanRam]

8 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Couldn't face posting last night - such a grim result & if I'm honest, I didn't really want to watch beyond half-time as the match was so bad. Was surprised we didn't concede just before half-time & the eventual defeat seemed entirely in keeping with the game as a whole. Bullied all over the pitch & a resounding test of character...that we failed.

Some thoughts;

• Firstly & controversially, credit to Rotherham. Why should they play football? Why should their chairman stay quiet? They spend their lives trying to survive in our division whilst we habitually chuck a few million at a bright young thing or a loan player far too good for this division. I'm not surprised they enjoyed it - instead of getting annoyed by it & whining about it in interviews, we should motivate ourselves to beat it.
• Knight & Shinnie - how we chortled as they ran the legs off oppo midfielders in recent weeks. They were utterly shown up last night & frankly we only need one of them. Its killing our attacking effort having more than one of them in the team
• Rooney - subs were spots on I thought & Gregory should have won us the game but that was largely in spite of a formation & tactics that were identical to the home game against them. We should have been losing comfortably at that point & its poor to try exactly the same game plan when it failed so badly the first time. Slow play + too many touches = Rotherham sweet spot.  See point above - you can't play ponderous midfielders who aren't comfortable in possession
• Patrick Roberts - liked what I saw. His great touch set Byrne away for Gregory's big chance. Lot more to come from him

Overall, a grim day at the office but our fate is in our hands. Lets go again Derby - another 3 wins on the spin, this gets quickly forgotten & then some clowns can start another playoff thread ?

Exactly right. And Rooney shouldn't really have criticised him. Having lost 3-0, its only ever going to look like sour grapes, which is now does.

Bet the Rotherham chairman loved that he rattled Wayne, and fair play to him. It was a big result. This season particularly, with only tv money to rely on, staying up is going to make a huge financial difference. And if they stay up doing to other teams what they did to us, then good on them.

 

 

[Spanish]

18 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

Exactly right. And Rooney shouldn't really have criticised him. Having lost 3-0, its only ever going to look like sour grapes, which is now does.

Bet the Rotherham chairman loved that he rattled Wayne, and fair play to him. It was a big result. This season particularly, with only tv money to rely on, staying up is going to make a huge financial difference. And if they stay up doing to other teams what they did to us, then good on them.

 

 

bet he still asked for Wayne's sig on  a replica shirt though.  Loutish behaviour is never forgivable nothing harmed by showing a modicum of respect.

[VulcanRam]

2 hours ago, Spanish said:

bet he still asked for Wayne's sig on  a replica shirt though.  Loutish behaviour is never forgivable nothing harmed by showing a modicum of respect.

Loutish behaviour? I guess it depends on exactly what he shouted. Anyway, having been run out of town quite comfortably, the best thing would have been to ignore it and politely swerve the question. He took the bait, the Rotherham chairman, from a position of victory, hit back and it was just unnecessarily unseemly. 

(Agree re the shirt ?) 

[NottsRam77]

On 04/02/2021 at 12:01, Tamworthram said:

Maybe. But I doubt we'll be able to confidently pin our demise down to the failure to win just one game against Barnsley. 

When it comes to a review of the season I suspect the defeats against Rotherham and Sheffield Wednesday will be far more significant. 

A long way to go still but, unless we're doomed by them, it's feeling like our final two home games (Birmingham and Sheffield Wednesday) could well be genuine must win games. 

I’m taking about the Rotherham games not Barnsley 

[RamNut]

15 hours ago, Dan_Ram said:

At least I got my money back for the dodgy stream. Refund should be going through in 24-48 hours ?

Lol. I got half a refund.