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Derby Vs Bristol City 30/1/21 3pm - Matchday thread.


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Good review by City manager Holden today

Extract from article taken from BristolLive

They had their tails up, they’ve won their last couple of games and they scored early. 

They were the better team today, no doubt about that. All over the pitch, our performance levels were not what they’ve been in the last couple of games and not at the levels we need to get to.

I’m not going to blame the conditions. The pitch is not ideal, we know that, but you’ve got to play the conditions.

We just didn’t seem to have a spark in our performance and that’s surprising because in our last couple of games, we’ve had some real top performances.

What I would say is that I hope Krystian Bielik is ok. It didn’t sound too good, did it, when he got injured on that far side. Fingers crossed it’s not a bad injury for him and we wish him well.

——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

Nice chap is our Dean.

 

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2 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Cocu played him when he wasn’t fit, we took him out the team, played him when he was ready. Had 2 weeks off with the Covid thing, had a week off between last week and today. Unfortunately what happened today was a freak and bad luck, not due to us taking a risk and pushing him to his limits.

Dont think I could disagree more with your statement, agreed with most of the rest of your post though

Look at Bielik’s injury history and it would tell you he needs handling with care more than most players.

He missed half of last season with us through injury, he missed a third of his loan spell with Charlton through injury, he missed the previous whole season and consequently his half season on loan with Walsall due to injuries too.

Don’t get me wrong, he’s been brilliant since he came back into the side, but perhaps we could have eased him back in and lightened his load.

12 games and playing the full 90 at full intensity again and again in such a short space of time is a big step change from 10 months out injured, especially for a player who has struggled with injuries for years. How well he had coped up to now always seemed too good to be true.

I am simply saying we have taken a risk not doing more to protect him and manage him more carefully, especially considering our experiences with Thorne and Barker in the past.

Obviously, as a player, he just wants to play and make up for lost time and there’s no denying we are better with him in the side. But as a club, surely we sometimes have to think beyond our short term needs and exercise our duty of care.

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2 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

He missed half of last season with us through injury, he missed a third of his loan spell with Charlton through injury, he missed the previous whole season and consequently his half season on loan with Walsall due to injuries too.

So that suggests you never know when he might get injured! These things are impossible to know. He's been handled really well here.

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26 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Look at Bielik’s injury history and it would tell you he needs handling with care more than most players.

He missed half of last season with us through injury, he missed a third of his loan spell with Charlton through injury, he missed the previous whole season and consequently his half season on loan with Walsall due to injuries too.

Don’t get me wrong, he’s been brilliant since he came back into the side, but perhaps we could have eased him back in and lightened his load.

12 games and playing the full 90 at full intensity again and again in such a short space of time is a big step change from 10 months out injured, especially for a player who has struggled with injuries for years. How well he had coped up to now always seemed too good to be true.

I am simply saying we have taken a risk not doing more to protect him and manage him more carefully, especially considering our experiences with Thorne and Barker in the past.

Obviously, as a player, he just wants to play and make up for lost time and there’s no denying we are better with him in the side. But as a club, surely we sometimes have to think beyond our short term needs and exercise our duty of care.

And just like you do every time with hindsight always inform us with the "we should have" "or "he should have" or "he would have been better off" after the event or "the next two games will tell us" or "this game is a free hit" etc.

I read most things on here, and I can't remember you ever questioning Bielik's selection in the previous games this season or today's starting line up's as a risk, or handling him with more care, but after today's incident, here you go again, about "we have taken a risk" should be easing him in, after the event, and now highlighting his injury history as we need to handle him with care etc.

Perhaps you as a fan, surely could enjoy a winning performance and think beyond your short term needs of exercising your duty to choose to always look for faults with the club, the management and all the rest, after the event, and exercise your duty of care as a supporter and do some supporting.

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35 minutes ago, Inverurie Ram said:

And just like you do every time with hindsight always inform us with the "we should have" "or "he should have" or "he would have been better off" after the event or "the next two games will tell us" or "this game is a free hit" etc.

I read most things on here, and I can't remember you ever questioning Bielik's selection in the previous games this season or today's starting line up's as a risk, or handling him with more care, but after today's incident, here you go again, about "we have taken a risk" should be easing him in, after the event, and now highlighting his injury history as we need to handle him with care etc.

Perhaps you as a fan, surely could enjoy a winning performance and think beyond your short term needs of exercising your duty to choose to always look for faults with the club, the management and all the rest, after the event, and exercise your duty of care as a supporter and do some supporting.

With respect, if you read the original post, it was largely a positive post. Some posters focused on one comment that they disagreed with and wanted to discuss it. How is that my fault?

And with respect, not everything I say is with hindsight. Some of it is, of course. That’s natural as a fan. But there’s plenty I’ve got spot on without the benefit of hindsight.

About Bielik, I’ve commented frequently that Bielik is difficult to rely on because of his injury history. I’ve also commented multiple times at how surprising and way ahead of schedule his recovery has seemed. My expectation was that he would only be playing regularly much later in the season because of the need to ease him in and the risk of breaking down again.

I’m very much enjoying today’s win, thank you very much. As I do every time we win. You might see me as negative in my views, but I just want the absolute best for our club. I stand by what I say and won’t apologise for any of it.

You seem like one of the nicest and most well respected posters on here and we’ve barely interacted, so I am surprised at the hostility coming from you.

But if you don’t like my posts and you take issue with them so much, feel free to put me on ignore.

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5 hours ago, Orphanram said:

I’ve got to agree with you. Quite a few of the posters I think your referring to were generally of the Uber Cocu fraternity. I think it’s difficult for anybody when you publicly commit to a person or a thing and that gets replaced by something you don’t necessarily relate to. In this case the sophistication and cerebral style of Cocu appealed greatly to those who perhaps seen themselves as more intelligent than your normal football fan. I think they see Rooney as a bit of an oik and the guy who replaced someone who they think looks and thinks like they do, a bit like if their Dad was the chemistry teacher and their mum left him for the P.E. teacher.
It will all be ok in the end though.  

Think it's very unfair to suggest that posters on here don't like Rooney due to them looking down their noses at him in the social standing pecking order. The only thing that made myself and other posters uncomfortable about Rooney being appointed was the lack of transparency regards the recruitment process. 

Cocu sophisticated and cerebral? Yes his results definitely supported his cerebral approach to the game and would have had us playing in League 1 next season if the experiment hadn't have been quite rightly curtailed. Sophisticated? Don't make me laugh. He projected himself as professional at all times but I would expect this as a minimum in a customer facing role. Rooney doesn't seem to be doing too badly in his interactions with the media as an observation.

I wasn't sold about Rooney from the start but neither was I enamoured with Cocu either but to suggest I considered Rooney an oik is kind of insulting. 

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6 hours ago, Orphanram said:

I’ve got to agree with you. Quite a few of the posters I think your referring to were generally of the Uber Cocu fraternity. I think it’s difficult for anybody when you publicly commit to a person or a thing and that gets replaced by something you don’t necessarily relate to. In this case the sophistication and cerebral style of Cocu appealed greatly to those who perhaps seen themselves as more intelligent than your normal football fan. I think they see Rooney as a bit of an oik and the guy who replaced someone who they think looks and thinks like they do, a bit like if their Dad was the chemistry teacher and their mum left him for the P.E. teacher.
It will all be ok in the end though.  

What a load of baalocks ?

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6 hours ago, Orphanram said:

I’ve got to agree with you. Quite a few of the posters I think your referring to were generally of the Uber Cocu fraternity. I think it’s difficult for anybody when you publicly commit to a person or a thing and that gets replaced by something you don’t necessarily relate to. In this case the sophistication and cerebral style of Cocu appealed greatly to those who perhaps seen themselves as more intelligent than your normal football fan. I think they see Rooney as a bit of an oik and the guy who replaced someone who they think looks and thinks like they do, a bit like if their Dad was the chemistry teacher and their mum left him for the P.E. teacher.
It will all be ok in the end though.  

I don’t think anyone genuinely dislikes Rooney. People got accused of the same with Cocu. Don’t confuse disliking someone or identifying with someone with simply wanting the best man for the job. Any criticism or doubt over Rooney only stems from that and nothing else.

Cast your mind back to October. Long before Cocu was even sacked, there were various media reports linking Rooney with the job. When Cocu finally did get sacked, there was also little to no evidence of a genuine recruitment process.

Based on that, some might believe Rooney’s appointment was calculated and predetermined, which lends weight to the speculation that Cocu was undermined, which in turn hinted at major problems behind the scenes and a deeply unhealthy club culture.

Rooney has done very well. But given the position we were in and his lack of coaching experience and qualifications, he never looked the obvious choice at the time.

His knowledge of the Championship and what works in this division was not really evident at the time and there seemed little logic in appointing someone that had been so heavily involved in the first team set up and the failure to get results.

You also have to consider that in some quarters there was probably a feeling of being tired of making headlines and just wanting a bit of normality instead of being a vehicle for another high profile former player to advance their career.

Think of Lampard, who had been perceived to have behaved with little regard for the club and to only have his own interests at heart. Maybe fans feared the same would happen with Rooney?

But of course Rooney has come in and there has been a sudden and significant upturn in results and many people’s initial fears have been put to rest, but when you weigh everything up, it can’t really be a surprise that Rooney has had to win some of the fans over but he has done that and how.

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11 hours ago, Orphanram said:

I’ve got to agree with you. Quite a few of the posters I think your referring to were generally of the Uber Cocu fraternity. I think it’s difficult for anybody when you publicly commit to a person or a thing and that gets replaced by something you don’t necessarily relate to. In this case the sophistication and cerebral style of Cocu appealed greatly to those who perhaps seen themselves as more intelligent than your normal football fan. I think they see Rooney as a bit of an oik and the guy who replaced someone who they think looks and thinks like they do, a bit like if their Dad was the chemistry teacher and their mum left him for the P.E. teacher.
It will all be ok in the end though.  

Got to say the players brought in under cocu have in the main been a cut above what we’ve been doing for a few years , echos of clough to maclaren here , if Rooney has an eye for a player we could be in business, really hope we have stumbled on a gem and mel stays a while longer  with him and Rooney getting us up,

I do predict that in the future Rooney will go on to be a far better manager than lampard , you can see already that Rooney is all about team and lampard is all about lampard

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10 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

Good review by City manager Holden today

Extract from article taken from BristolLive

They had their tails up, they’ve won their last couple of games and they scored early. 

They were the better team today, no doubt about that. All over the pitch, our performance levels were not what they’ve been in the last couple of games and not at the levels we need to get to.

I’m not going to blame the conditions. The pitch is not ideal, we know that, but you’ve got to play the conditions.

We just didn’t seem to have a spark in our performance and that’s surprising because in our last couple of games, we’ve had some real top performances.

What I would say is that I hope Krystian Bielik is ok. It didn’t sound too good, did it, when he got injured on that far side. Fingers crossed it’s not a bad injury for him and we wish him well.

——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

Nice chap is our Dean.

 

We’re hearing the same thing from every team that’s lost against. They talk about how their players weren’t at it today for some reason 

The reason is simple we haven’t allowed them to play and they haven’t been good enough to stop us imposing our will.

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33 minutes ago, Archied said:

To add to how wrong I was regards Rooney, mainly wanting an experienced manager ,I can honestly say I can’t think anyone who we may have brought would be doing a better job than Rooney ??‍♂️

Yep we could have had fat Sam

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19 minutes ago, Steve How Hard? said:

Anyone else notice Chris Martin walk past and have a cheeky glance as Rooney did his post match interview. I'm sure I saw him say "Don't forget Wazza, only two days left of the transfer window. I'm here if you need me."

Lol. Show's the a difference having a manager who knows how to instigate a plan makes. They've got a big squad of talented players and looked ordinary. I've watched them a few times on Sky and they often look a team of individuals.

Glad we have Wayne, wonder how long Holden might last?

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23 minutes ago, Steve How Hard? said:

Anyone else notice Chris Martin walk past and have a cheeky glance as Rooney did his post match interview. I'm sure I saw him say "Don't forget Wazza, only two days left of the transfer window. I'm here if you need me."

1176643570_Screenshot_20210131-091721_SamsungInternet.thumb.jpg.e6b35a0086d8510beabc1dc8621c5d1f.jpg

More than likely saying nice barnet Wayne ?

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1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Lol. Show's the a difference having a manager who knows how to instigate a plan makes. They've got a big squad of talented players and looked ordinary. I've watched them a few times on Sky and they often look a team of individuals.

Glad we have Wayne, wonder how long Holden might last?

Agreed @RoyMac5. We've had squads over the last few years that on paper looked very capable of competing at the top end at this level and on the whole we've pretty much achieved that.

The difference at the moment seems to be our resilience and that comes from a basis of working hard as a team to win the ball and then impose our style of play. It's less reliant on individual brilliance. 

I'm looking forward to see who we are going to add to give us a bit more potency in the final third. 

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5 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I don’t think anyone genuinely dislikes Rooney. People got accused of the same with Cocu. Don’t confuse disliking someone or identifying with someone with simply wanting the best man for the job. Any criticism or doubt over Rooney only stems from that and nothing else.

Cast your mind back to October. Long before Cocu was even sacked, there were various media reports linking Rooney with the job. When Cocu finally did get sacked, there was also little to no evidence of a genuine recruitment process.

Based on that, some might believe Rooney’s appointment was calculated and predetermined, which lends weight to the speculation that Cocu was undermined, which in turn hinted at major problems behind the scenes and a deeply unhealthy club culture.

Rooney has done very well. But given the position we were in and his lack of coaching experience and qualifications, he never looked the obvious choice at the time.

His knowledge of the Championship and what works in this division was not really evident at the time and there seemed little logic in appointing someone that had been so heavily involved in the first team set up and the failure to get results.

You also have to consider that in some quarters there was probably a feeling of being tired of making headlines and just wanting a bit of normality instead of being a vehicle for another high profile former player to advance their career.

Think of Lampard, who had been perceived to have behaved with little regard for the club and to only have his own interests at heart. Maybe fans feared the same would happen with Rooney?

But of course Rooney has come in and there has been a sudden and significant upturn in results and many people’s initial fears have been put to rest, but when you weigh everything up, it can’t really be a surprise that Rooney has had to win some of the fans over but he has done that and how.

I think some of the points you make are relevant, although the ending statement in your first paragraph in a forum of opinions Is a tad absolutist. 

My opinions are more of an observation that the road to joining the ‘Rooevolution’ might be more challenging for some based on what I described and also a number of the points you alluded to yourself. If Rooney continues on his current trajectory that will become easier for many and there will be few on the fringe who won’t be able to move past their hang ups.  

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