NottsRammy Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 I do feel that Mel has pulled the rug in he has had enough, but that grinds a bit when the top rich list comes out and he seems to be getting wealthier but yet has packed in chucking his millions even though he claims he is a fan . Thats one reason for me , although im not currently hating on Mel like a few are doing . I think the biggest reason of where we are now is the loaning of 3 big name players Mount , Wilson , Tomori . When they left it basically stripped the team of nearly all of its quality and we never ever replaced them it was Mels last little chuck of the dice to get us there without commiting to spending much only in wages . For me we have never ever recovered from around that time to have a decent balanced squad with any depth . Whats peoples thoughts . What i am saying is i think it hindsight it was a huge mistake to take on so many quality loan players to have them go back atthe season end leaves your team totally bare with to much to make up . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Derby Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Because we aren’t good enough where it matters and haven’t been for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 The rich list is a load of baalocks. Whoever compiles it has no idea what Mels net worth is. Even if it was accurate it doesnt mean any of it is just sat as cash in his bank account. He would be in an idiot to sell any of his assets in the middle of one of the deepest recessions the world has seen. I would say the main problems have been Covid and Sam Rush. Covid made it a lot harder for Mel to keep putting money into the club due to the lack of revenue. Made it necessary to sell whoever we could and we've been paying for the Rush spending spree ever since it happened. The squad has never recovered after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolram Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Sam Rush. Caused us more problems financially and with the squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 In fairness whatever Mels personal fortune is is not really relevant to pumping millions into the club. He is restrained by the shackles of FFP or whatever you want to call it. If he wasnt then he wouldnt be looking for loopholes like selling PP to himself. This is a failing of FFP in my view that if a wealthy owner wants to inject money into his club without saddling it with debt then they should be allowed to, its just a backdoor method of preventing a club coming from lower leagues and challenging the wealthy clubs of the premier league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 If the Chelsea job hadn't come up when it did, Lampard would have stayed another season and we would probably have retained some of the loans or got different ones at a similar level. We may well have been promoted had this happened. A lot of teams who get promoted to do with quality loans in their sides. I think the bigger deciding factor at the end of that season was the poor preparedness for the new Manager to come in and the complete change of training and playing style. Seemed to confuse the players and knock all the confidence out of them. They've never really recovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewbacca Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Two words...Sam Rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRammette Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, GenBr said: The rich list is a load of baalocks. Whoever compiles it has no idea what Mels net worth is. Even if it was accurate it doesnt mean any of it is just sat as cash in his bank account. He would be in an idiot to sell any of his assets in the middle of one of the deepest recessions the world has seen. I would say the main problems have been Covid and Sam Rush. Covid made it a lot harder for Mel to keep putting money into the club due to the lack of revenue. Made it necessary to sell whoever we could and we've been paying for the Rush spending spree ever since it happened. The squad has never recovered after that. Rich list is absolute garbage and made up estimates. Know as have had couple of clients on it. Also this "has packed in chucking his millions even though he claims he is a fan" is the sort of comment about Mel that really riles me. He has made many mistakes but is obviously a fan and we know nothing of the circumstances behind his wish to sell or what he may have planned to help support us in the future. Perhaps he's just fed up reading vitriolic comments on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 43 minutes ago, NottsRammy said: I do feel that Mel has pulled the rug in he has had enough, but that grinds a bit when the top rich list comes out and he seems to be getting wealthier but yet has packed in chucking his millions even though he claims he is a fan . Thats one reason for me , although im not currently hating on Mel like a few are doing . I think the biggest reason of where we are now is the loaning of 3 big name players Mount , Wilson , Tomori . When they left it basically stripped the team of nearly all of its quality and we never ever replaced them it was Mels last little chuck of the dice to get us there without commiting to spending much only in wages . For me we have never ever recovered from around that time to have a decent balanced squad with any depth . Whats peoples thoughts . What i am saying is i think it hindsight it was a huge mistake to take on so many quality loan players to have them go back atthe season end leaves your team totally bare with to much to make up . It feels a bit harsh to challenge his claim to be a fan because he has PACKED IN chucking in millions. Mel has made many mistakes which have contributed to the position we’re now in but I don’t think any one can doubt he is a fan and, over the years, seems to have injected a lot of money. You can hardly blame him or question his support if he now decides enough is enough. For me, his intentions have always been good but, he gambled, it didn’t pay off and the situation has been made a whole lot worse by this unprecedented, in most of our life times, pandemic. So, in answer to your question I would say a combination of a gamble (possibly reckless but not many of us were complaining much at the time) that failed, the pandemic and managerial appointments that haven’t worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 In the short term, as always, it comes down to recruitment. We were absolutely desperate for a new striker last summer, even before Martin and Marriott left. All we got was Kazim-Richards who, as hard as he tries, doesn’t have the quality to be a Championship sides main striker. The lack of signing another striker has been the killer blow imo. Had we signed someone like Dursun, who is capable of sticking the ball in the back of the net, then I think we’d be safe from relegation currently. But sadly complacency at board level meant we got no one, and we left it until January, by which time we’re already in this mess. Same goes for Ibe, we brought in someone who wasn’t ready to play straight away. Like we thought we had enough to see us safe in the mean time. We don’t. Criminal by Mel and the board to leave us this short of attacking options, and we thoroughly deserve to be relegated based on that complacency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramley Apple Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Lack of points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 I would say since the QPR Play Off Final, it's been recruitment, recruitment, recruitment. It's inevitable that some signings won't work out, but buying players that don't fit your style of play is unforgiveable. Appointing managers that will want a style of play that means starting all over again recruitment wise is also unforgiveable. Everything else is candy floss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Some people will inevitably say losing Chris Martin but I refuse to accept losing 1 player is the difference between 10th and bottom 3. I think Covid has had a big impact. Yes you can argue it’s the same for everyone but I think in recent years we’ve relied on fans to lift us and it’s got us through tight games where we’ve struggled. It’s no coincidence we’ve gone from having one of the best home records in the league for the past 3 seasons (even last season) to the worst this season. However the bigger impact of Covid was the short turnaround time between seasons. With the injuries sustained at the end of last season we didn’t have the time to get players right. Then you add in a transfer embargo due to the EFL appeal, this meant we had to sell to buy to improve the squad, due to the small turnaround time this couldn’t be done until into the season. I think it was inevitable we would start this season slowly, though no one expected this. Then you have to look at the management. I don’t know what happened in the summer but we came back undercooked. They talked about needing to match the intensity of the likes of Leeds, yet only had 4 weeks to change this. But either way we weren’t fit enough at the start of season. We therefore started badly and Cocu’s thinking became scrambled as he searched for results. Additionally, his complicated training methods, maybe some of the messages that had been landing last season when we rose from bottom 6 to 10th weren’t landing now, or teams had worked us out and he didn’t have an answer. Maybe due to lack of different squad options which leads us to recruitment. Lets face it is our recruitment dating back to 15/16 that has been a huge problem. Firstly it was throwing money at seasoned pros without thinking about where to play them, meaning they had no resale value and 4 years down the line we’ve still felt the impact through FFP (got to question whether these rules are right, we’ve not exactly thrown money at transfers since 15/16 though admittedly wages have become unsustainable). This continued with Rowett to a lesser degree and definitely with Lampard who has left us with Waghorn Jozefzoon and Malone who we lose in the region of £11m on. I think we’ve also underestimated the challenge of bringing through the academy players. They will make mistakes, they don’t have experience to fall back on when going gets tough. The are some similarities with this Derby team and the Southampton one that was relegated to League 1, went into admin (I think) although i think we have more experience than that Southampton team. Interestingly that Southampton team contained the likes of Schneiderlain, Lallana, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Walcott. There are probably others i missed. The former two played two seasons in league 1 and then played an integral part in back to back promotions to mid table premier league under Nigel Adkins, also aided by a takeover. Then there is the managerial merry go round where the buck stops with Mel. Big mistake to sack Steve McClaren twice. Clement was a bad appointment, Pearson was a bad fit as he was too dogmatic in his playing style, he needed to adapt to his squad. He was unlucky with Rowett and Lampard moving on, although the latter it would have been interesting how we got on last season without Mount Wilson and Tomori. Ironically, working to a budget and trying to build something would be ideal for Rowett although there would be question marks on whether he’d bring through the youth. Cocu was a visionary appointment but a combination of his playing style not being suited to championship football and the build up of baggage from years of poor recruitment and some questionable managerial appointments early on meant it didn’t work. So all of the above is why we’re where we are. I think Mel is partly to blame particularly with the way he managed the club in the first couple of years though I think in the past 18-24 months we’ve tried to follow a more sustainable path but have been hamstrung by the mismanagement dating back a few seasons ago. But I think it’s harsh to put all the blame at his door. He’s tried to compete and we have competed for 5 seasons at the sharp end of the league against clubs that dwarf us with revenues due to parachute payments and we’re now paying the price, exacerbated by Covid. The alternative would be a more sustainable approach but that would involve 3-4 seasons of mediocrity which fans would kick off about and then result in a 1-2 season window where we might have a team to challenge and you have to get it done - in the league that is probably the toughest to be promoted in the world. Money and the Premier League is ruining football as a whole, we’ve tried to compete and now we’re struggling. And we won’t be the last, I think more clubs financial situations will be brought to bare in the coming 12 months. A certain club in my now home city has the same revenue problems as us due to Covid, high wages due to a squad of about 35 senior pros, they don’t have that many youngsters coming through and they are not going to be promoted this season. How are they going to sustain it? I think we’re just the tip of the iceberg. Our position is being highlighted as we’re going through a takeover and we’re still going through the EFL investigations. 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RamNut Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 there has been so much mismanagement that its hard to know where to begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, CBRammette said: Rich list is absolute garbage and made up estimates. Know as have had couple of clients on it. Also this "has packed in chucking his millions even though he claims he is a fan" is the sort of comment about Mel that really riles me. He has made many mistakes but is obviously a fan and we know nothing of the circumstances behind his wish to sell or what he may have planned to help support us in the future. Perhaps he's just fed up reading vitriolic comments on here. I agree. I also don't see why people think Mel should continue to pour his wealth in until he he has nothing left - we aren't entitled to anything from him. Mel has invested in us to the absolute limit that he has been able to and whilst he has made mistakes and things haven't quite worked out in the end his years as owner have been some of the most entertaining for me as a Rams fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
England Ram Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Where do we start on the decline. The changing managers annually. Ffp limits being reached in year 1 and taking such a long time to recover. Average recruitment is some areas, absolutely poor in others. On top of this you have COVID which has left us with even less money in an already precarious position. Then for the current season, having a manager having his style and bringing in players to suit that as our big signing. Not having any strikers on the books worthy of a consistent championship start who can put the ball in the net. That style not working and players losing confidence, the new management taking over and starting all over again with another new style and still being woefully short of players. Am I worried about relegation......yes. We can talk all we want about having the players to get out of it but we keep showing that we can’t keep a clean sheet or score and that is not good, even though the performances have generally improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC27 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, NottsRammy said: I do feel that Mel has pulled the rug in he has had enough, but that grinds a bit when the top rich list comes out and he seems to be getting wealthier but yet has packed in chucking his millions even though he claims he is a fan . Thats one reason for me , although im not currently hating on Mel like a few are doing . I think the biggest reason of where we are now is the loaning of 3 big name players Mount , Wilson , Tomori . When they left it basically stripped the team of nearly all of its quality and we never ever replaced them it was Mels last little chuck of the dice to get us there without commiting to spending much only in wages . For me we have never ever recovered from around that time to have a decent balanced squad with any depth . Whats peoples thoughts . What i am saying is i think it hindsight it was a huge mistake to take on so many quality loan players to have them go back atthe season end leaves your team totally bare with to much to make up . Mel is the reason we are here, we look at individual decisions etc etc but ultimately the buck stops with him. He failed to implement any shred of a business model to the club. We have gone from Mac to Clement to wassall to Pearson to Mac to Rowett to Lampard to Cocu and now Rooney. With the exception to maybe one or two there has been no continuity in the style of plays, the recruitment was about the name not about the manager matching the players we’ve got. So over the years we’ve ended up with players that don’t suit systems and the new manager having to bring in a brand new side almost. You have to peg ourselves against Brentford and see how they have done it, they have stayed in this league with new managers but they always seem to continue the same style of play. One success Morris has is a fantastic youth set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leroyoftherovers Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 I'm with Tamworthram on this I see it as a gamble that has not gone well, a succession of managers with their own ideas resulting in poor recruitment and all the money spent. That puts us where we are relying on youth to much with a thread bare squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbados Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 For me it’s down to two principal reasons: 1.decision making 2.recruitment With the money Mel had invested had he got these correct in terms of both managerial and player recruitment we’d be an established Premier League by now, no doubt about it. Our recruitment of both manager and players has been shambolic and never been properly addressed. For an astute businessman that Mel is he’s made some horrific decisions running this club and those he employed to “advise” him As a result weve seen clubs like Brighton totally overtake us Sigh. . . what could have been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Sacking Mac 1 Sacking Mac 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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