Kaide Gordon - signed for Liverpool

[Tyler Durden]

9 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

OK, so I think this is pure semantics - can you qualify how not wishing to sign and not wishing to stay are so vastly different because unless my gasp of the English language is failing me, they amount to precisely the same thing, that being, no signature on the contract being offered.

Playing devil's advocate the guy could want to keep his options open for example - so is happy to stay (short term, again semantics I know) but guarded about committing his long term future by signing a contract and being tied into a long term deal. 

Just my opinion anyhows 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Tyler Durden

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

Playing devil's advocate the guy could want to keep his options open for example - so is happy to stay (short term, again semantics I know) but guarded about committing his long term future by signing a contract and being tied into a long term deal. 

Just my opinion anyhows 

Which makes a lot more sense to me, quite frankly and is precisely why I voiced some disappointment in the first place. Kaide gets offered a pre-contract which he knocks back because a) doesn't want to stay or b) doesn't want to commit. Club therefore in position whereby he could run down the scholar's agreement and simply walk. Club therefore decides, when offers come in, to take them seriously and a) maximise the potential windfall or b) minimise the loss, depending on your outlook.

All scenarios are triggered by the non-signing of the player so whilst there's plenty for us to be annoyed about with the club right now, the 'orchestrated' horse-trading of academy prospects ain't one of them. Equally, painting Kaide and / or his parents as innocent and hard done by is pretty disingenuous to say the least. 

Anyways, now I am pissed off as opposed to mildly miffed, so best I say no more.

[rynny]

3 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Which makes a lot more sense to me, quite frankly and is precisely why I voiced some disappointment in the first place. Kaide gets offered a pre-contract which he knocks back because a) doesn't want to stay or b) doesn't want to commit. Club therefore in position whereby he could run down the scholar's agreement and simply walk. Club therefore decides, when offers come in, to take them seriously and a) maximise the potential windfall or b) minimise the loss, depending on your outlook.

All scenarios are triggered by the non-signing of the player so whilst there's plenty for us to be annoyed about with the club right now, the 'orchestrated' horse-trading of academy prospects ain't one of them. Equally, painting Kaide and / or his parents as innocent and hard done by is pretty disingenuous to say the least. 

Anyways, now I am pissed off as opposed to mildly miffed, so best I say no more.

There is a third option and that none of it is true, and Kaide Gordon will sign a contract as soon as he is able to. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

5 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Which makes a lot more sense to me, quite frankly and is precisely why I voiced some disappointment in the first place. Kaide gets offered a pre-contract which he knocks back because a) doesn't want to stay or b) doesn't want to commit. Club therefore in position whereby he could run down the scholar's agreement and simply walk. Club therefore decides, when offers come in, to take them seriously and a) maximise the potential windfall or b) minimise the loss, depending on your outlook.

All scenarios are triggered by the non-signing of the player so whilst there's plenty for us to be annoyed about with the club right now, the 'orchestrated' horse-trading of academy prospects ain't one of them. Equally, painting Kaide and / or his parents as innocent and hard done by is pretty disingenuous to say the least. 

Anyways, now I am pissed off as opposed to mildly miffed, so best I say no more.

Firstly, we have no idea, despite what some have said on here, what the lad or his parents think or what the have done.

Secondly, the club didn't get him signed up as a scholar for his benefit. They did it for themselves.

Just like every other 16-year-old, he has to assess the options for his future and in that assessment, he and his parents aren't going to consider the feelings of the club or its supporters. Even if they do, one glance at this place would be enough to demonstrate that our feelings are not worth bothering with.

How dare the lad not have the same commitment to his employers as the rest of us have.

Those that have suggested that the parents motives go no further that paying off their own mortgage should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

 

[Comrade 86]

19 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Firstly, we have no idea, despite what some have said on here, what the lad or his parents think or what the have done.

Secondly, the club didn't get him signed up as a scholar for his benefit. They did it for themselves.

Just like every other 16-year-old, he has to assess the options for his future and in that assessment, he and his parents aren't going to consider the feelings of the club or its supporters. Even if they do, one glance at this place would be enough to demonstrate that our feelings are not worth bothering with.

How dare the lad not have the same commitment to his employers as the rest of us have.

Those that have suggested that the parents motives go no further that paying off their own mortgage should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

 

Well firstly, that's your opinion and others are entitled to theirs. Secondly, I've not mentioned his parents in any other context than him not being of legal age and therefore the ones most likely to decide whether a 16 year old boy moves to a different city or not. And thirdly, the point I made in the first place was that it was disappointing he'd not decided to stay at the club that helped nurture his talent. I haven't labelled him at all just said I understand others being miffed. Not sure what it is in that opinion that warrants your holier than thou sermon to be honest, nor having received it do I very much care. While you may not care a jot who comes or goes, others very much do, as is their prerogative.

Edited January 24, 2021 by 86 Hair Islands

[Footymum2017]

18 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Firstly, we have no idea, despite what some have said on here, what the lad or his parents think or what the have done.

Secondly, the club didn't get him signed up as a scholar for his benefit. They did it for themselves.

Just like every other 16-year-old, he has to assess the options for his future and in that assessment, he and his parents aren't going to consider the feelings of the club or its supporters. Even if they do, one glance at this place would be enough to demonstrate that our feelings are not worth bothering with.

How dare the lad not have the same commitment to his employers as the rest of us have.

Those that have suggested that the parents motives go no further that paying off their own mortgage should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

 

Somebody with a sensible view!
He’s not even started his 2year scholar yet so why shouldn’t he want to keep his options open.  The club have offered the contract for their benefit not his. Anyone whose sons have gone through the academy system know how ruthless it is, the clubs are in it as a business.  He’s a 16 year old lad, how many of that age know what their thoughts will be in 2 years time to commit to something now that they’re tied to until they`re 20. Especially at an unstable club, that could be in League 1 next season.

[RoyMac5]

13 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said:

Somebody with a sensible view!
He’s not even started his 2year scholar yet so why shouldn’t he want to keep his options open.  The club have offered the contract for their benefit not his. Anyone whose sons have gone through the academy system know how ruthless it is, the clubs are in it as a business.  He’s a 16 year old lad, how many of that age know what their thoughts will be in 2 years time to commit to something now that they’re tied to until they`re 20. Especially at an unstable club, that could be in League 1 next season.

Best we sell him then, because to balance that view - he'll know from how successful his brother was going through our Academy - that nothing is guarenteed.

[AndyinLiverpool]

32 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Well firstly, that's your opinion and others are entitled to theirs. Secondly, I've not mentioned his parents in any other context than him not being of legal age and therefore the ones most likely to decide whether a 16 year old boy moves to a different city or not. And thirdly, the point I made in the first place was that it was disappointing he'd not decided to stay at the club that helped nurture his talent. I haven't labelled him at all just said I understand others being miffed. Not sure what it is in that opinion that warrants your holier than thou sermon to be honest, nor having received it do I very much care. While you may not care a jot who comes or goes, others very much do, as is their prerogative.

Thanks for the reply.

We are all entitled to our opinions. And we are all entitled to challenge others' opinions. There are so many opinions in this thread based  on tittle-tattle and assumptions. And these seem to be orientated around the worst possible motives - selfishness, greed etc. Neither you nor anybody else has any basis for these assumptions. 

Some people on here just want to think the worst of people, including at least one person who projected the stuff about the parents (this wasn't aimed at you but 'those' that did). I'm quite willing to accept that it's 'holier-than-thou' to point out that not a great attitude.

You and I have no idea whether he's decided to stay or not. How can anyone have an opinion on whether he's decided to stay or not? It's not holier-than-thou to point out that this is crap. It's like having an opinion on whether it's Sunday or not. The decision is a matter of fact, not opinion. And we are not party to that information.

 

[Comrade 86]

7 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Thanks for the reply.

We are all entitled to our opinions. And we are all entitled to challenge others' opinions. There are so many opinions in this thread based  on tittle-tattle and assumptions. And these seem to be orientated around the worst possible motives - selfishness, greed etc. Neither you nor anybody else has any basis for these assumptions. 

Some people on here just want to think the worst of people, including at least one person who projected the stuff about the parents (this wasn't aimed at you but 'those' that did). I'm quite willing to accept that it's 'holier-than-thou' to point out that not a great attitude.

You and I have no idea whether he's decided to stay or not. How can anyone have an opinion on whether he's decided to stay or not? It's not holier-than-thou to point out that this is crap. It's like having an opinion on whether it's Sunday or not. The decision is a matter of fact, not opinion. And we are not party to that information.

 

Thanks for the reply, intoned with the same sarcasm as your own.

I've not stated anywhere that is was selfish, only (and I'll say this one last time politely) that I find it disappointing when young players like Delap and Kaide fly the coop before spending a single season playing for the senior squad of the club that nurtured them.

You can project all you like in order to satisfy your urge to sermonise, but if you can't even discern the sense of the posts you berating, then nothing I can say will change YOUR mind either.

The post accusing his parents of being more interested in paying their mortgage that you cited in your first reply isn't even one of mine, but that's not stopped you quoting me in your response. I think to date that I've always been respectful in my interactions with you, so it's disappointing that you don't feel the need to reciprocate. I'm going to leave it there now in any case.

[Footymum2017]

8 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Thanks for the reply, intoned with the same sarcasm as your own.

I've not stated anywhere that is was selfish, only (and I'll say this one last time politely) that I find it disappointing when young players like Delap and Kaide fly the coop before spending a single season playing for the senior squad of the club that nurtured them.

You can project all you like in order to satisfy your urge to sermonise, but if you can't even discern the sense of the posts you berating, then nothing I can say will change YOUR mind either.

The post accusing his parents of being more interested in paying their mortgage that you cited in your first reply isn't even one of mine, but that's not stopped you quoting me in your response. I think to date that I've always been respectful in my interactions with you, so it's disappointing that you don't feel the need to reciprocate. I'm going to leave it there now in any case.

You should maybe question the clubs motives rather than the players.  If they don’t want to sell, then don’t.

[Sparkle]

I wasn’t aware we could sell a youngster who isn’t under contract what we can do is agree a fee to avoid a tribunal judgement or do I have that wrong 

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said:

You should maybe question the clubs motives rather than the players.  If they don’t want to sell, then don’t.

But where is the clubs guarantee that their financial input into a players football education will have recompense? They are not doing this for altruistic reasons - if Kaide doesn't want to commit to the club to help ensure their financial input isn't wasted, then there's lots of other Academy's out there aren't there? The Academy is a commercial enterprise, does Kaide pay to attend?

[AndyinLiverpool]

7 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Thanks for the reply, intoned with the same sarcasm as your own.

I've not stated anywhere that is was selfish, only (and I'll say this one last time politely) that I find it disappointing when young players like Delap and Kaide fly the coop before spending a single season playing for the senior squad of the club that nurtured them.

You can project all you like in order to satisfy your urge to sermonise, but if you can't even discern the sense of the posts you berating, then nothing I can say will change YOUR mind either.

The post accusing his parents of being more interested in paying their mortgage that you cited in your first reply isn't even one of mine, but that's not stopped you quoting me in your response. I think to date that I've always been respectful in my interactions with you, so it's disappointing that you don't feel the need to reciprocate. I'm going to leave it there now in any case.

I haven't, I promise. I referred to 'those who ...' and 'some people'.  My purpose was to reply to you and add other comments too, so that I don't have to leave half a dozen posts, which has worked out well. The remarks I made about the lad's parents were not aimed at you. I thought that was clear in the first post and the follow up. Apologies for it not being so.

My mind is open to change when someone comes up with actual verifiable information. That mind is not going to change on the basis of rumour.

The sarcasm is not there. I was grateful for your reply.

The boy will make his decision based on what he wants with advice from his parents. I have no reason to believe that decision will be based on anything other than what's best for the lad.

 

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said:

You should maybe question the clubs motives rather than the players.  If they don’t want to sell, then don’t.

As and when there's anything to indicate that that is the case, I shall. In the meantime, when Rooney himself openly states he does not want to sell any of our young talents, I'll just assume he's part of the conspiracy in future ?

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I haven't, I promise. I referred to 'those who ...' and 'some people'.  My purpose was to reply to you and add other comments too, so that I don't have to leave half a dozen posts, which has worked out well. The remarks I made about the lad's parents were not aimed at you. I thought that was clear in the first post and the follow up. Apologies for it not being so.

My mind is open to change when someone comes up with actual verifiable information. That mind is not going to change on the basis of rumour.

The sarcasm is not there. I was grateful for your reply.

The boy will make his decision based on what he wants with advice from his parents. I have no reason to believe that decision will be based on anything other than what's best for the lad.

 

Fair enough Andy. Typically when my own post is cited I tend to assume that any following comments relate to it, so I'll say thank you for your response again, this time with no sarcasm implied. 

[Footymum2017]

28 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

But where is the clubs guarantee that their financial input into a players football education will have recompense? They are not doing this for altruistic reasons - if Kaide doesn't want to commit to the club to help ensure their financial input isn't wasted, then there's lots of other Academy's out there aren't there? The Academy is a commercial enterprise, does Kaide pay to attend?

They are entitled to compensation based on the number of years that the player has been at the club and the category of the academy.  Most of the time they will get more than the compensation due as was the case with Liam Delap. Once a player sides at under 9s for an academy then they cannot leave unless the club releases them or another club pays the ompensation. 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said:

Once a player sides at under 9s for an academy then they cannot leave unless the club releases them or another club pays the compensation. 

But at what age do they leave the Academy? If Kaide has been here a long time he's gained a lot of benefit from being at premier Academy, I don't understand why he won't sign on to stay at the club longer? What is it he's looking for, there aren't that many better Academy's are there?

[Boycie]

4 hours ago, Footymum2017 said:

The clubs have all the power at this age, he can only go somewhere if they let him, whereas if the club wants to sell him and he doesn’t want to go he hasn’t really got any say in it.

Yes he has, sigh the damn contract.  I’m sure if it was your lad you’d want him to leave the club for a good monthly wage rather than stay on less.  Is your lad at the club?

[Wolfie20]

Wow - a lot of hot air on this thread.

I have no more idea what plans the Club and/or young lad have regarding his future than 99.9% of posters on here but I found it interesting (if reports are correct) to see Kaide sat alongside McClaren at Loftus Road yesterday. Make of that what you will.

[bcnram]

9 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Wow - a lot of hot air on this thread.

I have no more idea what plans the Club and/or young lad have regarding his future than 99.9% of posters on here but I found it interesting (if reports are correct) to see Kaide sat alongside McClaren at Loftus Road yesterday. Make of that what you will.

Probably just part of learning the game, or even helping him iron out a weakness in his game that they have picked up.