Who was the worserest owner(s) of Derby County

[Jayram]

15 hours ago, SouthStandDan said:

Everyone seemed to rave about Gadsby and co. They did rescue the club but it was all loans, they never had any actual money. They made a quick buck, didn't invest much money in the premier league and sold to the Americans. But because they were local, they get a free pass.

 

15 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Think our Mel was in that one.  To be honest without them the future was down the crapper so they did a decent job for me, taking those shisters who were stealing from the club out the equation .  I'd take them back at the minute.

And don’t forget one of their first actions was to buy back Pride Park from some dodgy Panamanian registered company so I don’t think it’s fair to label them as bad owners, they just didn’t have the funds to take the club forward.

[Woodley Ram]

3 hours ago, sage said:

Is worsest a worse word than worserer or is it the worst?

all sounds like German sausage to me 

[Rab a dab doo]

This could be the worest of the worest then maybe ?

[Sith Happens]

Might be better to vote once mels tenure is over. If the rumours of administration are true as per the abu Derby thread then its looking like Mel is one of the worst owners we have ever had.

Hope it's not true.

[IlsonDerby]

I’d judge an owner on the state they leave a club in compared to when they took over. 
 

Gadsby - from the brink to the premier league but without a squad worthy of challenging.

 

GSE and Pearson - Relegation battle and heading to league one to pushing for the play offs. 
 

Morris - pushing for the play offs to on the verge of administration and financial ruin with the caveat that our academy and facilities are brilliant. 
 

 

[oldtimeram]

Under the current circumstances I think Morris is probably number one as the worst. 

[Tamworthram]

7 hours ago, oldtimeram said:

Under the current circumstances I think Morris is probably number one as the worst. 

It’s getting harder and harder to defend Mel (certainly until we discover the truth) but one thing to remember when considering who is the worst owner is the circumstances they have had to contend with.

Yes I know things weren’t good as recently as twelve months ago but what has happened since then, in particular the last few months, has been made a whole lot worse by the unprecedented circumstances football is facing right now. It must be the worst time possible to get a decent price and close the deal on the sale of the club and, outside of the premier league (as usual) the most difficult time to keep a club solvent. I suspect there are many clubs not far behind us on the road to potential administration.

Mel has certainly made some big mistakes but, if the virus hadn’t happened the club would probably still be able to pay its way and a sale completed more smoothly. Then, we’d probably look back on Mel’s tenure and think, we had some exciting times and flirted with promotion but, because those attempts failed, he left us in a bit of a financial mess.

So, whilst you can’t entirely blame the virus for the clubs plight, without it I doubt we’d be considering Mel as the worst owner (worse than Maxwell? surely not).

[oldtimeram]

11 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

It’s getting harder and harder to defend Mel (certainly until we discover the truth) but one thing to remember when considering who is the worst owner is the circumstances they have had to contend with.

Yes I know things weren’t good as recently as twelve months ago but what has happened since then, in particular the last few months, has been made a whole lot worse by the unprecedented circumstances football is facing right now. It must be the worst time possible to get a decent price and close the deal on the sale of the club and, outside of the premier league (as usual) the most difficult time to keep a club solvent. I suspect there are many clubs not far behind us on the road to potential administration.

Mel has certainly made some big mistakes but, if the virus hadn’t happened the club would probably still be able to pay its way and a sale completed more smoothly. Then, we’d probably look back on Mel’s tenure and think, we had some exciting times and flirted with promotion but, because those attempts failed, he left us in a bit of a financial mess.

So, whilst you can’t entirely blame the virus for the clubs plight, without it I doubt we’d be considering Mel as the worst owner (worse than Maxwell? surely not).

I forgot about Maxwell.  Horrible man

[CornwallRam]

12 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

I’d judge an owner on the state they leave a club in compared to when they took over. 
 

Gadsby - from the brink to the premier league but without a squad worthy of challenging.

 

GSE and Pearson - Relegation battle and heading to league one to pushing for the play offs. 
 

Morris - pushing for the play offs to on the verge of administration and financial ruin with the caveat that our academy and facilities are brilliant. 
 

 

I know it's a deeply unfashionable opinion, but I'd say that our academy and facilities are Mel's biggest mistakes.

Great facilities don't come cheap. Mel once said something like the club is now Premier League in all but status. That's the problem. If we were in the Premier League, we'd have the income to support this massive infrastructure. We're not in the Premier League so we don't. What we have is a millstone of unaffordable expenditure.

Everything needed to be focused on the first team until promotion was achieved. That's where my argument that the academy has been a massive problem comes in. I'll actually begin with a caveat - the new rules around EU players make overseas recruitment virtually impossible for Championship clubs, so moving forward the academy may well prove to be superb resource, but my point relates to the pre-2021 period.

We know that the a cat 1 academy costs at least £2.5m per season. That is a big expenditure for a club turning over less than £30m. The problem is that it has been reported that Mel is putting in £3m a month. As an owner he can only put in £13m per season for inclusion in FFP calculation. That would suggest that he's putting in a lot for FFP exempt expenditure. The academy has to be the main reason for that. I believe that it is a reasonable assumption that the academy is costing Mel £5m a season or so.

I know people are now shouting Bogle and Lowe. Yes, they will have paid for the academy for last season, but has it helped the club? Does it help that the academy is so expensive that it's best products have to be sold as soon as they start to contribute to the first team? But that's not even the main problem - the financial necessity to develop academy products to sell forces managers to select players who aren't quite good enough for the Championship. It's the only way you can develop them. That reduces the chances of promotion. 

Our academy is so expensive that we simply have to make use of the young players it produces. That reduces the chances of promotion. Thus, the academy is one of our biggest problems. Yes, we have a squad with many exciting youngsters, but that squad is in danger of relegation. We can't afford a cat 1 academy unless we are in the Premier League.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, oldtimeram said:

I forgot about Maxwell.  Horrible man

I guess that's my point. Maxwell was horrible and I can't imagine how he would be dealing with this situation. He would probably have locked the gates and doors at Pride Park and told the players to do one.

[Ambitious]

If it isn’t sorted to a reasonable conclusion soon enough then Morris will go down as the worst Derby County owner of my lifetime. It sounds like he may well end up killing the club he grew up supporting, quite possibly the heaviest burden he will ever carry. 

League One is looking inevitable at this point, with potentially sales and a point deduction. How on earth did it get to this point? 

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

If it isn’t sorted to a reasonable conclusion soon enough then Morris will go down as the worst Derby County owner of my lifetime. It sounds like he may well end up killing the club he grew up supporting, quite possibly the heaviest burden he will ever carry. 

League One is looking inevitable at this point, with potentially sales and a point deduction. How on earth did it get to this point? 

I don’t know what period your lifetime covers but, please see my previous comments about Maxwell.

Given what Mel and the club are having to deal with (most notably the virus), we can’t really do a fair comparison. Who knows how previous owners would have dealt with the situation.

 

[Ambitious]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I don’t know what period your lifetime covers but, please see my previous comments about Maxwell.

Given what Mel and the club are having to deal with (most notably the virus), we can’t really do a fair comparison. Who knows how previous owners would have dealt with the situation

 

Maxwell was before my time. Lionel Pickering onwards for myself. 

I like Mel Morris as a bloke and his heart as undoubtedly been in the right place, but this situation and the gravity of this situation will forever condemn him to the history books as not just a failed owner, but perhaps one of the most detrimental owners this club has ever had. We're quite possibly going into the third division of English football for the third time in our history, the first time in over 30 years. I'm not sure if we've ever been in administration before in our history, not that I can recall despite a few close calls, but that also doesn't look far away. 

You're right that situations haven't helped him, at all, but the poor decisions leading up to this season have cumulated in this season. He doesn't have a crystal ball, but quite honestly he didn't need one to know that he should've at least played it safer at times.  

[Roboram]

Mel has spent a shed load of money & there's no doubt his heart is definitely in the right place. However, his tenure has been an absolute disaster. Look at we were when he took over & look at where we are now, both on the field (position in the table) & off it financially.

There's no doubt at all though that the worst owners over the last 15 years were the 3 crooks. Yes, they do qualify as they were here until 2006.  

[RoyMac5]

24 minutes ago, Roboram said:

Look at we were when he took over & look at where we are now, both on the field (position in the table)...

Crazy thing is now he's appointed Rooney and the wages have been slashed, with youth coming through, if he just held on a season or two you could see 'the ride playing out' to be successful. 

[Tamworthram]

19 hours ago, Roboram said:

Mel has spent a shed load of money & there's no doubt his heart is definitely in the right place. However, his tenure has been an absolute disaster. Look at we were when he took over & look at where we are now, both on the field (position in the table) & off it financially.

There's no doubt at all though that the worst owners over the last 15 years were the 3 crooks. Yes, they do qualify as they were here until 2006.  

I was exchanging messages with a Villa fan I work with yesterday primarily about Rooney’s appointment.

However, we both agreed that that day at Wembley was a pivotal day for both clubs.

If we’d won (and then survived the following season) Mel would be “one of our own” again and the new Messiah. Villa would have been in the financial poo - nearly, but perhaps not quite as bad, as we are now given the lockdown etc.

The gamble didn’t pay off and now we’re suffering big time but, before we label him as the absolute worst owner, let’s not forget no other post war owner has had to contend with anything like we’re facing now: sky high player wages and very little money coming in. 

[ziggyram59]

Sorry hope you don't mind me putting this in but without a doubt Sam Longson and John(Jack) Kirkland, pushed Clough and Taylor out the door and will never forgive them for that. Could of won more league championships, european cup maybe but they decided to interfere especially Kirkland. The 3 amigo's and Maxwell were bad as well. 

[LeedsCityRam]

On 14/01/2021 at 07:55, CornwallRam said:

Our academy is so expensive that we simply have to make use of the young players it produces. That reduces the chances of promotion. Thus, the academy is one of our biggest problems. Yes, we have a squad with many exciting youngsters, but that squad is in danger of relegation. We can't afford a cat 1 academy unless we are in the Premier League.

Fair play for putting your neck out & outlining your argument but couldn't disagree more.

The Academy is not the reason we are in danger of relegation. The reason we are in danger is because of a) a lack of funds to strengthen in key areas because of poor permanent signings/expensive loan gambles in previous years that didnt pay off & b) a lack of faith from the previous manager in the style of play he initially advocated (and which had garnered results Jan-July) instead regressing to a no risk, defensive & confusing 'style'.

Knight, Bird, Buchanan & Sibley have been the shining lights of this club over the past year with only Kazim & Bielik matching their impact on the first team. The aforementioned 4 would cost at least 25m to buy in a normal market..that in itself pays for the Academy. When you also factor in the sales of Liam Delap (1m plus), Thomas (1m) & yes, Bogle and Lowe over the past year or so, its clear this is a massive asset for the club to have.

 

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, ziggyram59 said:

Sorry hope you don't mind me putting this in but without a doubt Sam Longson and John(Jack) Kirkland, pushed Clough and Taylor out the door and will never forgive them for that. Could of won more league championships, european cup maybe but they decided to interfere especially Kirkland. The 3 amigo's and Maxwell were bad as well. 

I agree, things could have been so different. However, I've just finished reading a book that contains all the board meeting minutes from this era and, whilst I don't doubt it is somewhat biased in favour of the board, it would seem to suggest Clough was by far from blameless.

Criticizing the fan, making decisions behind the boards back, signing players against medical advice (although he was vindicated in his decision), bringing the club into distribute with his outspoken comments about the FA, seriously flirting with other jobs (a la McLaren) and taking on TV commitments that interfered with his managerial duties.

[Leeds Ram]

I think the choices of best and worst in this poll is slightly arbitrary. If we were asking for this century it might make a bit more sense. The 3 amigos were without a doubt the worst, I believe they are still the only owners to go to jail as a result of their actions whilst in charge of a football club. Of the ones from the list it's hard to actually choose between the best and the worst as all have had their downsides, difficult periods but also have made some good decisions. GSE were probably in the long term the best custodians despite it being absolutely soul destroying for 4/5 seasons and it could easily have ended desperately bad if we'd won a handful less games in some of those seasons. 

Mel Morris' tenure on the face of it mirrors Lionel Pickering's. A local man with a passion for the club, modernising facilities and spending a lot of money which seemingly is now running out at the backend of the tenure. He's done an awful lot for the club that I hope people remember despite this unfortunate ending. He's not done everything right and has made some critical errors but his heart is in the right place. For that, I hope he gets the gratitude that was never quite there for Pickering once everything went south.