RoyMac5 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 On the bench for Stoke v Lester today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 On 03/01/2021 at 15:54, Mostyn6 said: Sadly, a lot of negative opinions were racially influenced. What ? Thought never occurred to me even when hearing from those that weren’t fond of him one little bit. Can you read minds ? I can’t remember anything that alluded to race so where does that thought come from ? Anyway .. good player, scored some crackers, worked hard, occasionally selfish, got frustrated (and showed it) when team mates weren’t on the same wave length. Not a full on genius, but a top class championship player and a joy to watch on his better days. One of those players who could change a game with his innate skills. I liked him .. warts and all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, jono said: What ? Thought never occurred to me That’s part of the issue being highlighted by BLM etc. People don’t always realise that something is racially influenced/biased. Some aren’t even aware that their own actions may be. Perhaps a conversation for another thread, but i feel if two players performed and behaved identically, but one was white the other black, many white observers would unconsciously judge the white guy more favourably and the black guy more harshly. i have witnessed it with Ince too but don’t wanna go into it. I can’t prove it so it’s pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 On 06/01/2021 at 13:25, nottingram said: He tended to be good with Baird behind him, I thought. Maybe a bit of confirmation bias almost because of the Forest goal but that showed what Ince could do with an intelligent full back behind, as opposed to Cyrus Christie, like you say. Would have him back in a heartbeat. Jozwiak and him would offer really good balance. Love your post. I speaks to the basic knowledge that I have of football. Jeez there are lots people on here who seem to see more and know more than I do ... but when it comes to attacking on the flanks it’s blindingly obvious .. you need a duo. A will o the wisp can be marked out of the game, no matter how good he is but if you give him a mobile wall to bounce off in a good full back who understand team play, you will stretch and mishape any defence. Baird type players do t need to bomb on, they need to play the pass at the right time or be close enough for the winger to use as a foil when under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 On 03/01/2021 at 16:10, Boycie said: Really? I think this could be true. People say he was lazy and I remember closely watching him in a couple of matches, he seemed to work harder than most of the rest of the team. No idea why he was labelled as lazy, it could be racially motivated. Or just people blindly following what others say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: That’s part of the issue being highlighted by BLM etc. People don’t always realise that something is racially influenced/biased. Some aren’t even aware that their own actions may be. Perhaps a conversation for another thread, but i feel if two players performed and behaved identically, but one was white the other black, many white observers would unconsciously judge the white guy more favourably and the black guy more harshly. i have witnessed it with Ince too but don’t wanna go into it. I can’t prove it so it’s pointless. Sorry mate .. I dispute your premise because it contains the word “many” That implies a common occurrence .. no way is that reflected on anything I have seen on here or heard on the terraces .. Fans care about effort, skill and success. Those that don’t meet the criteria are insulted by whatever means fit the bill .. it could indeed be physical appearance ... but has F all to do with race and bigotry In football terms a few white bigots might have some race hate - can’t deny that .. but they really are a few, they are dinosaurs. You simply can’t use the term “many” and have any credibility. Now if you want to talk about America and Trump and the security failings on the Capitol - what would have happened if it had been an angry black mob .. then I would agree with you. They have a big ingrained cultural problem that they only started to address in the 1960’s ..They have a long way to go. BUT .. this is football in Midlands UK .. we don’t have that American cultural baggage where racism was supported by the law in living memory. .. We and everywhere in the world have had, and still have an element of cultural racism but it has never been part of the law or supported by the law in living memory. The last 20 years have seen racism, even casual unintended racism become universally unacceptable. (To all but the dinosaurs who will never change because they are simpletons lacking in higher brain functions ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 @jono I’m not bothering to get into this debate, but out of respect, will acknowledge and respect your opinion. Suffice to say, making racism unacceptable has mostly encouraged racists to HIDE their views, not CHANGE their views. I would also mention that depending on how much attention you’re paying, it’s not hard to find racist incidents, here, in the midlands, in the ouskirts of Derbyshire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 21 minutes ago, Theres’s Only Wan Chope said: I think this could be true. People say he was lazy and I remember closely watching him in a couple of matches, he seemed to work harder than most of the rest of the team. No idea why he was labelled as lazy, it could be racially motivated. Or just people blindly following what others say. Nothing to do with race. Truth is it was all about his dads ego a lack of a fan friendly persona and the perception in some quarters that he was a fancy Dan living on his dads name. Race ? Rubbish .. sour puss jealousy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: @jono I’m not bothering to get into this debate, but out of respect, will acknowledge and respect your opinion. Suffice to say, making racism unacceptable has mostly encouraged racists to HIDE their views, not CHANGE their views. I would also mention that depending on how much attention you’re paying, it’s not hard to find racist incidents, here, in the midlands, in the ouskirts of Derbyshire! Die hard Racists will always hide their views. You won’t change them. They are there among us. A good society can only make sure they are in the shadows and can’t raise their heads. You CAN educate decent folk out of conditioned behaviour that they have learned from parents or another society / community they grew up in - but the ones that have it in their DNA you will never shift and there will always be some. Extremists live and breathe on their mentality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 21 minutes ago, jono said: Nothing to do with race. Truth is it was all about his dads ego a lack of a fan friendly persona and the perception in some quarters that he was a fancy Dan living on his dads name. Race ? Rubbish .. sour puss jealousy It could be. It might not even be conscious. His dad ? Why judge him by his dad. Who even knew him properly? The people who sat behind me definitely seemed to be inclined to shout stuff about being lazy at black players. But it may just be people copying what others said. I personally liked Ince and thought he worked hard for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimmerman Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Was great when he was here. May have been frustrating at times, but when he was in form my god he was good. Would have him back in a heartbeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 hour ago, bimmerman said: Was great when he was here. May have been frustrating at times, but when he was in form my god he was good. Would have him back in a heartbeat He was better than Lawrence but he is a lot older and far too many teams and managers have stopped playing him ( at least from the beginning) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_The_Waff Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 On his way to Luton on loan. My how the mighty have fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oomarkwright Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Gone to Luton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, oomarkwright said: Gone to Luton Did not pass go. Did not collect £200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Luton's success has been built on creating a team greater than the sum of its parts. Signing Tom Ince flies in the face of everything they stand for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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