Jordon Ibe

[RadioactiveWaste]

How many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb?

Only one, but the lightbulb has to want to change.

[Keepyuppy]

Speculation  is what speculation does. Nobody knows any details, neither should they, or expect any. Just because a person is a footballer does not mean people have any right to be told anything. All personal health issues and employment issues is a) personal to the individual and their health support network. All issues relating to personal health and employment is b) confidential to the individual and their employer, should the two issues need to interface. 

People should refrain from hearsay and any personal opinion - it is none of their concern or business, unless it becomes part of the public domain via other means.

That is my ten penneth worth, as an experienced Senior Mental Health Services Practitioner and also managenent responsibility for Services Staff in/and interfacing with Human Resources Services with employment/employee policy protocols in all matters.

 

 

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, Keepyuppy said:

Speculation  is what speculation does. Nobody knows any details, neither should they, or expect any. Just because a person is a footballer does not mean people have any right to be told anything. All personal health issues and employment issues is a) personal to the individual and their health support network. All issues relating to personal health and employment is b) confidential to the individual and their employer, should the two issues need to interface. 

People should refrain from hearsay and any personal opinion - it is none of their concern or business, unless it becomes part of the public domain via other means.

That is my ten penneth worth, as an experienced Senior Mental Health Services Practitioner and also managenent responsibility for Services Staff in/and interfacing with Human Resources Services with employment/employee policy protocols in all matters.

 

 

I agree with the majority of the above however Ibe's mental health issues are in the public domain and have been for a while and not a private matter between employer and employee. 

And heresay, need to be careful on that as well, many employment cases have been settled on the tenant of the balance of probabilities or likelihood and this has been adjudged a reasonable way for an employer to make a decision in the absence of any hard facts. 

[Ramslad1992]

1 hour ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

How many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb?

Only one, but the lightbulb has to want to change.

Not having a go, this is a genuine question but have you ever been the lightbulb? Mental health isn’t as black and white as the rams ?

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

1 hour ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

How many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb?

Only one, but the lightbulb has to want to change.

You make it sound like he can choose whether he has depression 

[Bubbles]

See a lot of talk about mental health issues on this. 

One of the things that winds me up a lot is that people who haven’t first hand experienced issues such as anxiety, depression only understand to a certain extent the impacts it can have on someone.

Everybody battles their inner demons differently.

It’s important to realise that Jordon is first of all human, It sounds silly but on numerous occasions I’ve seen people say absolutely baffling statements such as “How can you be depressed when you’re making X amount of money per week?” - It’s all too common that people seem to forget that these famous people, whether they be footballers, celebrities, they all have their issues...

and they deal with them differently, sometimes people feel able to speak out and speak up, go to a GP, however there are also people who either don’t have the ability, or have the confidence to be able to speak up and suffer in silence.

From a personal perspective, I’ve faced my depression by myself, I never felt like I could openly speak out because I feared I’d be judged. I turned to alcohol and drugs as a coping mechanism. Fortunately I’ve not touched drugs for just under 4 years now, and that was due to an experience where I almost lost my life, I realised then that’s where I need to change things, and set myself on a path to beat my demons.

You only know about me my username on here. You don’t know what I go through on a day to day basis so your opinions on me can only be based on my profile picture, my posts and my name, you don’t really know what the real Bubbles is, or what the real Bubbles goes through,

and we only know Jordon based on his profession, we only know him as a footballer, we don’t know his personal life at all, we don’t know what he deals with on an day to day basis, we don’t know nothing. That’s the important thing to remember here.

It’s okay saying someone wants to change, that’s right, but many occasions people try and try to change and ultimately can’t.

Remember Jordon has a life outside of football that we know nothing about...

Sorry if this was completely off topic but mental health is something in which I am always ready to speak out on.

Hopefully whatever the issue is with Jordon, it can be sorted swiftly and hopefully we can see him doing what he does best soon!

COYR.

 

[Ramslad1992]

13 minutes ago, Bubbles said:

See a lot of talk about mental health issues on this. 

One of the things that winds me up a lot is that people who haven’t first hand experienced issues such as anxiety, depression only understand to a certain extent the impacts it can have on someone.

Everybody battles their inner demons differently.

It’s important to realise that Jordon is first of all human, It sounds silly but on numerous occasions I’ve seen people say absolutely baffling statements such as “How can you be depressed when you’re making X amount of money per week?” - It’s all too common that people seem to forget that these famous people, whether they be footballers, celebrities, they all have their issues...

and they deal with them differently, sometimes people feel able to speak out and speak up, go to a GP, however there are also people who either don’t have the ability, or have the confidence to be able to speak up and suffer in silence.

From a personal perspective, I’ve faced my depression by myself, I never felt like I could openly speak out because I feared I’d be judged. I turned to alcohol and drugs as a coping mechanism. Fortunately I’ve not touched drugs for just under 4 years now, and that was due to an experience where I almost lost my life, I realised then that’s where I need to change things, and set myself on a path to beat my demons.

You only know about me my username on here. You don’t know what I go through on a day to day basis so your opinions on me can only be based on my profile picture, my posts and my name, you don’t really know what the real Bubbles is, or what the real Bubbles goes through,

and we only know Jordon based on his profession, we only know him as a footballer, we don’t know his personal life at all, we don’t know what he deals with on an day to day basis, we don’t know nothing. That’s the important thing to remember here.

It’s okay saying someone wants to change, that’s right, but many occasions people try and try to change and ultimately can’t.

Remember Jordon has a life outside of football that we know nothing about...

Sorry if this was completely off topic but mental health is something in which I am always ready to speak out on.

Hopefully whatever the issue is with Jordon, it can be sorted swiftly and hopefully we can see him doing what he does best soon!

COYR.

 

Best post I’ve seen in a long time ?

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

I agree with the majority of the above however Ibe's mental health issues are in the public domain and have been for a while and not a private matter between employer and employee. 

And heresay, need to be careful on that as well, many employment cases have been settled on the tenant of the balance of probabilities or likelihood and this has been adjudged a reasonable way for an employer to make a decision in the absence of any hard facts. 

While his issues are common knowledge, the specifics of this investigation are not and remain subject to the same confidentiality rules as any of us would expect.

As for the 'tenet' (I'm assuming that's what you meant?) of balance of probability, I think you make a valid point, but I would still expect there to be more latitude in instances where mental health issues are concerned. It is quite likely that we will never get to hear the specifics of the investigations after all and rightly so in my opinion.

[RadioactiveWaste]

9 hours ago, Ramslad1992 said:

Not having a go, this is a genuine question but have you ever been the lightbulb? Mental health isn’t as black and white as the rams ?

It's a joke.

It's the how many X does it take to change a lightbulb joke. The joke is that psychologists always use the truism that the person has to want to change. It's a joke on a cliche of psychology/therapy.

Up there with "Psychoanalysis, if it's not one thing, it's your mother"

Just so you know, I have been the lightbulb.

 

[Tyler Durden]

7 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

While his issues are common knowledge, the specifics of this investigation are not and remain subject to the same confidentiality rules as any of us would expect.

As for the 'tenet' (I'm assuming that's what you meant?) of balance of probability, I think you make a valid point, but I would still expect there to be more latitude in instances where mental health issues are concerned. It is quite likely that we will never get to hear the specifics of the investigations after all and rightly so in my opinion.

Yes absolutely agree I was just pointing out that if a subject matter has been shared by one of the parties previously then it cannot then be considered as a private matter as it has been shared for public consumption. Matters such as internal disciplinary meetings fall under GDPR since 2018.

And yes I agree latitude should be given when dealing with instances of mental health unfortunately though in employment law the employer can quite reasonably progress an outcome where they have no proof, as long as they had a reasonable belief that the misconduct happened.

 

[Rampage]

7 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

It's a joke.

It's the how many X does it take to change a lightbulb joke. The joke is that psychologists always use the truism that the person has to want to change.

And yes, for your information, I have lost years of my life, friendship, opportunities, dig myself into debt,self harmed, abused alcohol and all the rest with depression. I have been the lightbulb.

 

Millions of people are suffering with depression and anxiety in UK today and Covid is only increasing those numbers.

[Jimbo Ram]

9 hours ago, Bubbles said:

See a lot of talk about mental health issues on this. 

One of the things that winds me up a lot is that people who haven’t first hand experienced issues such as anxiety, depression only understand to a certain extent the impacts it can have on someone.

Everybody battles their inner demons differently.

It’s important to realise that Jordon is first of all human, It sounds silly but on numerous occasions I’ve seen people say absolutely baffling statements such as “How can you be depressed when you’re making X amount of money per week?” - It’s all too common that people seem to forget that these famous people, whether they be footballers, celebrities, they all have their issues...

and they deal with them differently, sometimes people feel able to speak out and speak up, go to a GP, however there are also people who either don’t have the ability, or have the confidence to be able to speak up and suffer in silence.

From a personal perspective, I’ve faced my depression by myself, I never felt like I could openly speak out because I feared I’d be judged. I turned to alcohol and drugs as a coping mechanism. Fortunately I’ve not touched drugs for just under 4 years now, and that was due to an experience where I almost lost my life, I realised then that’s where I need to change things, and set myself on a path to beat my demons.

You only know about me my username on here. You don’t know what I go through on a day to day basis so your opinions on me can only be based on my profile picture, my posts and my name, you don’t really know what the real Bubbles is, or what the real Bubbles goes through,

and we only know Jordon based on his profession, we only know him as a footballer, we don’t know his personal life at all, we don’t know what he deals with on an day to day basis, we don’t know nothing. That’s the important thing to remember here.

It’s okay saying someone wants to change, that’s right, but many occasions people try and try to change and ultimately can’t.

Remember Jordon has a life outside of football that we know nothing about...

Sorry if this was completely off topic but mental health is something in which I am always ready to speak out on.

Hopefully whatever the issue is with Jordon, it can be sorted swiftly and hopefully we can see him doing what he does best soon!

COYR.

 

Brilliant summary. We lost our daughter partly due to mental health issues, it is an incredibly complex subject and a lot of people with no experience of it have no real understanding of it and how devastating it can be ?

[Leicester Ram]

I think we just need to have patience with Jordon.

Whatever problems he’s facing, we simply don’t know what’s going on inside his head. This isn’t an ACL or broken leg, there’s no regiment or timetable that we can expect to be followed.

I think a realistic goal would to be have him playing regularly by the end of the season but if that doesn’t happen, I’d like to remind everyone that he’s signed a two year contract with us for what is reported as peanuts. We’re hoping he can get his career back on track but all we can do is be patient and be kind.

If he manages it inside this two year contract, that will be a great achievement and we’ll be so much better off for it because he’s such a talented player.

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Millions of people are suffering with depression and anxiety in UK today and Covid is only increasing those numbers.

It certainly is.

It's been a miserable year in so many ways, for so many people.

It's good that it's getting mentioned, but ultimately, we've got to a) get covid beat for the sake of everyone's health, mental health included and b) mental health services need proper funding.

 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

Whatever problems he’s facing, we simply don’t know the detail or extent of them. This isn’t an ACL or broken leg, there’s no regiment or timetable that we can expect to be followed.

Like with George Thorne.

I guess it depends on whether the 'patient' is following doctors orders, we can expect that can't we?

[CBRammette]

21 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Brilliant summary. We lost our daughter partly due to mental health issues, it is an incredibly complex subject and a lot of people with no experience of it have no real understanding of it and how devastating it can be ?

That's very very sad. Sorry to hear that. 

[Tyler Durden]

33 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

I think we just need to have patience with Jordon.

Whatever problems he’s facing, we simply don’t know what’s going on inside his head. This isn’t an ACL or broken leg, there’s no regiment or timetable that we can expect to be followed.

I think a realistic goal would to be have him playing regularly by the end of the season but if that doesn’t happen, I’d like to remind everyone that he’s signed a two year contract with us for what is reported as peanuts. We’re hoping he can get his career back on track but all we can do is be patient and be kind.

If he manages it inside this two year contract, that will be a great achievement and we’ll be so much better off for it because he’s such a talented player.

I'm not trying to be unsympathetic but have had the luxury if that's the correct word of seeing both sides of the coin.

Depression is an extremely debilitating illness as I know from first hand experience. Most employers are supportive when employees suffer however the timescales on this support are not infinitesimal.

Employers cannot allow staff to be off work for an indeterminate period of time without progressing their own duty of care - home visits, phased return to works, appointments with Occupational Health etc.

Again this sounds harsh but this is how a lot of businesses operate - ultimately Ibe has been employed as a professional footballer and the club then cannot redeploy him in another role in the business as one could do with another "regular" employee. The club at some point could then decide that Ibe is not then making himself available for work therefore not fulfilling his contract and could seek to then terminate said contract.

As long as the club could evidence that they have tried to support Ibe and ultimately had done everything in their power to assist without a positive outcome then this would be seen as a reasonable dismissal, the same for any other "normal" employee in a business.

So I hope that the club is doing everything in their power to assist Ibe but be warned that this will not be seen as something without any defined endpoint. 

[Tamworthram]

6 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I'm not trying to be unsympathetic but have had the luxury if that's the correct word of seeing both sides of the coin.

Depression is an extremely debilitating illness as I know from first hand experience. Most employers are supportive when employees suffer however the timescales on this support are not infinitesimal.

Employers cannot allow staff to be off work for an indeterminate period of time without progressing their own duty of care - home visits, phased return to works, appointments with Occupational Health etc.

Again this sounds harsh but this is how a lot of businesses operate - ultimately Ibe has been employed as a professional footballer and the club then cannot redeploy him in another role in the business as one could do with another "regular" employee. The club at some point could then decide that Ibe is not then making himself available for work therefore not fulfilling his contract and could seek to then terminate said contract.

As long as the club could evidence that they have tried to support Ibe and ultimately had done everything in their power to assist without a positive outcome then this would be seen as a reasonable dismissal, the same for any other "normal" employee in a business.

So I hope that the club is doing everything in their power to assist Ibe but be warned that this will not be seen as something without any defined endpoint. 

Absolutely.

I have mentioned several times that both my wife and daughter suffer from depression but, on the other side of the coin, I have been the manager of several customer facing outlets (area manager of a retail bank) where adequate staffing numbers is critical and I have had staff off with mental illness. It’s a very difficult balancing act. You want the individual back at work for their own benefit as well that of the business. You can’t rush it and it needs to be done in the right, supportive way but it cannot continue forever.

[Tyler Durden]

4 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Absolutely.

I have mentioned several times that both my wife and daughter suffer from depression but, on the other side of the coin, I have been the manager of several customer facing outlets (area manager of a retail bank) where adequate staffing numbers is critical and I have had staff off with mental illness. It’s a very difficult balancing act. You want the individual back at work for their own benefit as well that of the business. You can’t rush it and it needs to be done in the right, supportive way but it cannot continue forever.

Yes totally agreed. Was just trying to make the point that Derby will not "allow" Ibe to be away from work indefinitely as it helps neither the club nor the individual ultimately.

There will be a point where Derby will decide that there isn't any realistic prospect of Ibe returning in the short or medium term and will then seek to terminate the relationship. 

The added complexity with a professional footballer as I've said previously is that if a person was feeling workplace stress in their current role than the business could seek to redeploy that person in another role if one was found to be suitable and available. A professional footballer is ultimately recruited and contracted to play football so this avenue does not exist. 

[Woodley Ram]

1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Brilliant summary. We lost our daughter partly due to mental health issues, it is an incredibly complex subject and a lot of people with no experience of it have no real understanding of it and how devastating it can be ?

So sorry @Jimbo Ram, your post puts everything in perspective, football is less important. I have suffered and still am, despite holding a big job down from this and yes it is complex and we often don't know how people are feeling or what effect words can have as triggers. I wish you well, Ibe well and everyone who has suffered what Churchill called his black dog days as well as their relatives and support systems. 

can I also wish everyone a great 2021 full of positivity and compassion