I'm a grassroots referee... Ask me anything.

[oomarkwright]

What's the best zoom lens to get for a Nikon 3300 DLR? 

[sage]

Do you let children go to the toilet during a game?

 

 

Asking for another poster

[Boycie]

If someone says something a bit negative about you, do you flounce off the pitch?

[kevinhectoring]

a

[kevinhectoring]

On 28/12/2020 at 23:09, Mafiabob said:

Sadly - this is what I thought would happen to this thread

but some useful insight above mb

[ollycutts1982]

I coach at grass roots level and absolutely love it, though it is as frustrating as it is rewarding. I always try to respect the referees as much as possible and insist on the same from my players.

There are a few niggles which gripe me, we are currently U8 level and the standard of refereeing is on the whole quite good, mainly youngsters starting out. One thing that annoys me more than anything this season is the pass back rule, we were punished earlier on in the season, our player slid in and won the ball which rolled back to our keeper who gathered the ball which resulted in the ref giving a free kick, the free kick was taken directly and the opposition scored. We lost 1-0. I spoke to the ref after the game and explained in a very calm way that firstly it wasn't a deliberate pass and also the free kick should have been indirect. He blanked me and walked off. The next game, the opposition keeper rolled the ball to his defender who passed it back and he picked it up. No free kick given. Very frustrating. I spoke with the league official as I wanted clarity on this. He told me at this level the ref should talk to the keeper in the first instance and then give a free kick should it happen again. The annoyance lies with the fact that kids at this age know the rules and feel rightly hard done by when they are punished one week and not rewarded the next for the same infringement. Same with throw ins, one week punished the next week anything goes. 

I totally understand referees have to learn but I don't feel that they are given enough mentoring and quality guidance and council. Having played for 30+ years the best refs are the ones who constantly talk and explain decisions. A potentially heated moment can be defused by a 'This is the way I saw it/this is what I thought'. Simply shunning players away and turning their backs to players makes a hard job all the more difficult.

Not really a question as such more an observation from a far from perfect coach who makes his fair share of mistakes. As much as I disagree with some decisions whilst playing if the ref is communicating it is very hard to continue an argument.

Good luck with it @Wazztie16

[ollycutts1982]

On 27/12/2020 at 17:53, BIllyD said:

Why are most grassroots refs unapproachable ? 
 

One thing I preach as both a manager and a parent is to take the refs decision during play no matter what, however most grassroots refs will not take any feedback at the end of the game. I don't mean about decisions made during the game, often this is about opinions, but when it comes to the general feedback we are often told to go through the official channels. 

My eldest also plays currently at U15 level. Last season on one of the few occasions I got to watch him play as there was no fixture clash with the youngest, the ref they had was only young, maybe 16. He was absolutely excellent throughout in what must of been a particularly tough game for him, loads of needle, back chat, scuffles. I was that impressed that at the end of the game once the players had left the pitch I stepped over the respect barrier (totally wrong I know) and approached him, I said how impressed I was with him and that he handled the game far better than some more experienced refs I have encountered would have, before too long I was approached by an extremely irate bloke screaming at me to get away from him. It transpired it was his dad who though I was having a go at his son. Very strange his dad comes and has a go at me as he though I was having a go at him. We had a laugh and went away. I have seen the same ref at a couple of the Mini Soccer (I hate it when they call it that) Venues and he is constantly talking players through the game.

[Phoenix]

On 27/12/2020 at 15:33, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Never been a fan of people abusing referees, as a player (at youth level) or a fan.

I don't think I've ever said anything worse than "Ref, come on!" after they've missed me being clattered or something.

I'm not trying to come across as being whiter than white or anything, but it's just not in my nature to have a go at someone. As long as they're doing their best and not being arrogant, I don't have a problem with them making a mistake.

Come on! That's half the fun of the game, so that some old bald-headed bloke can shout "It's not f*****g netball ref", when the home fullback has been booked for hospitalising the opposing winger.

I admit he was old enough to know better (the spectator, not the ref).

[DarkFruitsRam7]

2 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

Come on! That's half the fun of the game, so that some old bald-headed bloke can shout "It's not f*****g netball ref", when the home fullback has been booked for hospitalising the opposing winger.

I admit he was old enough to know better (the spectator, not the ref).

To be fair, you've just made me realise that my previous post was a lie. It's been so long since my last away day that I've forgotten I used to love getting caught up in shouting "Ducking hell ref!" every couple of minutes.

[Wazztie16]

23 hours ago, ollycutts1982 said:

I coach at grass roots level and absolutely love it, though it is as frustrating as it is rewarding. I always try to respect the referees as much as possible and insist on the same from my players.

There are a few niggles which gripe me, we are currently U8 level and the standard of refereeing is on the whole quite good, mainly youngsters starting out. One thing that annoys me more than anything this season is the pass back rule, we were punished earlier on in the season, our player slid in and won the ball which rolled back to our keeper who gathered the ball which resulted in the ref giving a free kick, the free kick was taken directly and the opposition scored. We lost 1-0. I spoke to the ref after the game and explained in a very calm way that firstly it wasn't a deliberate pass and also the free kick should have been indirect. He blanked me and walked off. The next game, the opposition keeper rolled the ball to his defender who passed it back and he picked it up. No free kick given. Very frustrating. I spoke with the league official as I wanted clarity on this. He told me at this level the ref should talk to the keeper in the first instance and then give a free kick should it happen again. The annoyance lies with the fact that kids at this age know the rules and feel rightly hard done by when they are punished one week and not rewarded the next for the same infringement. Same with throw ins, one week punished the next week anything goes. 

I totally understand referees have to learn but I don't feel that they are given enough mentoring and quality guidance and council. Having played for 30+ years the best refs are the ones who constantly talk and explain decisions. A potentially heated moment can be defused by a 'This is the way I saw it/this is what I thought'. Simply shunning players away and turning their backs to players makes a hard job all the more difficult.

Not really a question as such more an observation from a far from perfect coach who makes his fair share of mistakes. As much as I disagree with some decisions whilst playing if the ref is communicating it is very hard to continue an argument.

Good luck with it @Wazztie16

Re the pass back, yes, the ref should really have spoken to the player involved, especially at that level, and let the first offence go, obviously if it was an offence.

Rather than going in too harsh and leaving himself nowhere to go after that.

I presume you don't know how experienced the ref was? I know you said young, but he could've had a full season under his belt, it could just be a differing of opinions. 

It does happen ?. 

Throw ins, that's a minefield in itself. Some players and managers etc think they should look like they do in the Prem. 

Unfortunately at grassroots, that isn't usually the case. 

I had an on field debate when I started refereeing with a manager, who was up in arms about the release point of a throw in. 

I simply said to him that as long as it comes from behind and then over the head, it's likely to be legal. It might look ugly, it won't look like the professionals do it, but legal. 

There's nothing in the laws of the game to say when the ball should be released from the hands. So as long at they throw it into the field of play, with the throw being legal itself, then just get on with it. Players should play to the whistle. It's basic stuff. 

Above all on that, re throw ins, refs only really get to go on the laws of the game and what they see on TV or other lower level games, until they start getting higher up, so it's just a fact of life, inconsistency is going to happen. 

I'm a ref who enjoys talking, "watch your arms", "no you're good, keep playing" (on a good tackle).

I'll always try and tell players why I've blown up for something that I see as careless (just a foul), reckless (yellow card) or endangering an opponent and that that comes with the territory for a red card. 

I feel players deserve to know and feel it helps my match control, I've never had a match (from memory) that I couldn't control so I hope I'm doing something right. 

As well, its all about angles a lot of the time. Those angles that a ref might see where a clip has occurred, or a nick off a player for the ball going out of play. The ref (if they can keep up! ) is much closer to the play than the benches. So they have the better position or angle. 

I hope that helps. 

[rynny]

1 hour ago, Wazztie16 said:

I'm a ref who enjoys talking, "watch your arms", "no you're good, keep playing" (on a good tackle).

I'll always try and tell players why I've blown up for something that I see as careless (just a foul), reckless (yellow card) or endangering an opponent and that that comes with the territory for a red card. 

I feel players deserve to know and feel it helps my match control, I've never had a match (from memory) that I couldn't control so I hope I'm doing something right. 

The best refs always talk to players throughout the game, I like having a joke and a laugh with the ref, there was 3-4 refs that have officiated a lot of my games that I got on with really well, they knew I was an honest player and I knew they were very good at keeping the game under control. 

1 hour ago, Wazztie16 said:

As well, its all about angles a lot of the time. Those angles that a ref might see where a clip has occurred, or a nick off a player for the ball going out of play. The ref (if they can keep up! ) is much closer to the play than the benches. So they have the better position or angle. 

This is the reason why I don't understand why people want the refs to do interviews after the game. All they are going to say is that from my angle it looked like the decision I gave. 

[rammieib]

@Wazztie16 Good job mate - I’m a basketball ref for 15 years or so. Biggest improvement I’ve made over the years is man-management. Talking to players, who are happy to be talked to, letting coaches talk to you (as long as it’s respectful) and being prepared to say “I’m sorry, I may have it wrong but this is what I saw from my angle”. That last one literally gives the player nowhere to go.

Anyway my question for you - the offside rule, I get it and understand it but what is the point in the rule having two defensive players between goal and attacked. Why not change it to one outfield defensive player and ignore the GK. Happens very rarely but if a GK goes wandering, outfield attackers shouldn’t be penalised.

Sorry, one more, kick offs - I would change this rule slightly to say as soon as the ref blows a whistle, the team not taking the kick off can enter the opponents half/circle. Would stop these fake kick offs and retakes.

[Malagaram]

22 hours ago, Wazztie16 said:

Re the pass back, yes, the ref should really have spoken to the player involved, especially at that level, and let the first offence go, obviously if it was an offence.

Rather than going in too harsh and leaving himself nowhere to go after that.

I presume you don't know how experienced the ref was? I know you said young, but he could've had a full season under his belt, it could just be a differing of opinions. 

It does happen ?. 

Throw ins, that's a minefield in itself. Some players and managers etc think they should look like they do in the Prem. 

Unfortunately at grassroots, that isn't usually the case. 

I had an on field debate when I started refereeing with a manager, who was up in arms about the release point of a throw in. 

I simply said to him that as long as it comes from behind and then over the head, it's likely to be legal. It might look ugly, it won't look like the professionals do it, but legal. 

There's nothing in the laws of the game to say when the ball should be released from the hands. So as long at they throw it into the field of play, with the throw being legal itself, then just get on with it. Players should play to the whistle. It's basic stuff. 

Above all on that, re throw ins, refs only really get to go on the laws of the game and what they see on TV or other lower level games, until they start getting higher up, so it's just a fact of life, inconsistency is going to happen. 

I'm a ref who enjoys talking, "watch your arms", "no you're good, keep playing" (on a good tackle).

I'll always try and tell players why I've blown up for something that I see as careless (just a foul), reckless (yellow card) or endangering an opponent and that that comes with the territory for a red card. 

I feel players deserve to know and feel it helps my match control, I've never had a match (from memory) that I couldn't control so I hope I'm doing something right. 

As well, its all about angles a lot of the time. Those angles that a ref might see where a clip has occurred, or a nick off a player for the ball going out of play. The ref (if they can keep up! ) is much closer to the play than the benches. So they have the better position or angle. 

I hope that helps. 

Well said.

[SKRam]

On 27/12/2020 at 14:37, Wazztie16 said:

Current grassroots referee.

I do Saturday afternoon Open Age (middles and run lines), and Sunday morning youth middles (usually u15-u18). 

I also run women's low level FA cup lines, Derby County academy lines. 

Ask me anything! 

 

I’m quite sure you’ll agree that Harry Maguire header last night was indeed a foul. I knew it....many thanks 

[ilkleyram]

Other than hormones and age, what changes do you think? When I watch our u23s or u18s it must, generally, be a joy to ref - no diving, play acting, kicking the ball away (one of my pet hates about epl/efl matches), back chat, surrounding the ref, and all the other nonsenses that often spoil the game. But when the same players move up to first team level it all starts. Some of those games must be miserable to officiate. Or am I wrong - are junior games full of low level cheating that we don’t see in the same way?

[Boycie]

@Wazztie16 ref!

[Wazztie16]

16 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

Other than hormones and age, what changes do you think? When I watch our u23s or u18s it must, generally, be a joy to ref - no diving, play acting, kicking the ball away (one of my pet hates about epl/efl matches), back chat, surrounding the ref, and all the other nonsenses that often spoil the game. But when the same players move up to first team level it all starts. Some of those games must be miserable to officiate. Or am I wrong - are junior games full of low level cheating that we don’t see in the same way?

What changes do I think? 

 

U18 at grass roots does have thy kicking the ball away, from what I've experienced. Not prevalent, but it is noticeable (to me anyway). You get a bit of back chat, nothing big. No one surrounds the ref, again from my experience. 

I enjoy refereeing u17/18 games, you can let a bit more go in regards to physical challenges with strength, there's no real moaning about every barge, and they tend to get on with it when you wave away "in the back ref!" for a hand on the back with no offence having been committed. 

U15/16 are a joy for me too. 

Anything under that and the play is too slow really to keep me interested, so I leave that to the younger refs. 

 

[Sith Happens]

Yesterdays offside goal for rotherham.

The player who scored was clearly offside when the ball was played, but there was a lot of talk in the matchday thread, and by the commentary team that it hinged on if it touched wisdom on the way through.

From what i understand if it came off wisdom only matters if he was in control of the ball and misplaced a pass to the attacking player, that an attempted clearance or deflection does not automatically put the attacking player back onside.

Whats your view?

 

[WhiteHorseRam]

On 27/12/2020 at 14:37, Wazztie16 said:

Current grassroots referee.

I do Saturday afternoon Open Age (middles and run lines), and Sunday morning youth middles (usually u15-u18). 

I also run women's low level FA cup lines, Derby County academy lines. 

Ask me anything! 

 

Have you ever been hit by a pie?

[Boycie]

Can you be offside if you’re stood behind the goal line?