rynny Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 7 hours ago, Jourdan said: Bradley Johnson cost less and there never would have been threads about him after a good run of 5-6 games. IIRC that is exactly what happened with Bradley Johnson. He got a lot of rave reviews when he first joined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 5 hours ago, WNC Ram said: He'd make Arsenal better right now, that's certain. So would CKR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 6 hours ago, Jubbs said: I don't think it is to be honest. For Charlton, he was unreal and he played most of the season there. In his 20 odd games he was statistically and visually the most dominant defensive midfielder in the league, levels above everyone else. So far this season, he's been phenomenal. For Charlton, he played in League One, so how is that relevant? In his 20 games prior to injury, he was levels above everyone else, was he? Perhaps we have a different idea of dominant. How does losing eight games out of 20 suggest he was dominant? How does keeping four clean sheets out of 20 suggest he was dominant? How does losing six consecutive away games and conceding 13 in the process suggest he was dominant? How does being subbed off early in multiple games suggest he was dominant? Surely having such a dominant and influential defensive player would have seen a more positive impact on our defensive structure and organisation and our overall ability to stop the opposition? Yet during his first spell in the team, we had one of the most porous defences in the division. I am not disputing that he is a good player. He clearly is. But he has a long way to go before he can be levelled with such praise. To say he’s one of the most dominant players in the league at this stage in his Derby career is quite frankly ludicrous. He has achieved nothing yet in a Derby shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnyram Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Excellent performance last night deserving of the MotM. He is still only 22 so a few rash challenges or wrong decisions are to be expected, particularly last season when he was trying to make a mark at Championship level when he was just 21 years old. Easy to forget how young he still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 22 hours ago, David said: Were they? He barely played for us prior to getting injured, can't imagine he would have been on many radars with his performances for us before the ACL It was something I remember hearing / reading, probably wasn't from a very reliable source..... maybe DET, Radio Derby, or someone on here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 17 hours ago, Jourdan said: For Charlton, he played in League One, so how is that relevant? In his 20 games prior to injury, he was levels above everyone else, was he? Perhaps we have a different idea of dominant. How does losing eight games out of 20 suggest he was dominant? How does keeping four clean sheets out of 20 suggest he was dominant? How does losing six consecutive away games and conceding 13 in the process suggest he was dominant? How does being subbed off early in multiple games suggest he was dominant? Surely having such a dominant and influential defensive player would have seen a more positive impact on our defensive structure and organisation and our overall ability to stop the opposition? Yet during his first spell in the team, we had one of the most porous defences in the division. I am not disputing that he is a good player. He clearly is. But he has a long way to go before he can be levelled with such praise. To say he’s one of the most dominant players in the league at this stage in his Derby career is quite frankly ludicrous. He has achieved nothing yet in a Derby shirt. The 'dominant' stat derived from being aerially dominant, where he's the 4th best DM/CM for aerial duels won per 90 (behind Saville, Wheeler and Cousins), and 2nd best for the percentage of headers won (behind Sow). If we look at match rating on WhoScored, he's the best in the league with 7.40. Capoue is 2nd with 7.37, then there's a big jump to 3rd with 7.16 Note: stats only include those to have played 4 or more games and excludes sub apps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubbs Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 17 hours ago, Jourdan said: For Charlton, he played in League One, so how is that relevant? In his 20 games prior to injury, he was levels above everyone else, was he? Perhaps we have a different idea of dominant. How does losing eight games out of 20 suggest he was dominant? How does keeping four clean sheets out of 20 suggest he was dominant? How does losing six consecutive away games and conceding 13 in the process suggest he was dominant? How does being subbed off early in multiple games suggest he was dominant? Surely having such a dominant and influential defensive player would have seen a more positive impact on our defensive structure and organisation and our overall ability to stop the opposition? Yet during his first spell in the team, we had one of the most porous defences in the division. I am not disputing that he is a good player. He clearly is. But he has a long way to go before he can be levelled with such praise. To say he’s one of the most dominant players in the league at this stage in his Derby career is quite frankly ludicrous. He has achieved nothing yet in a Derby shirt. This was done after his injury, this shows his complete and utter dominance in midfield, absolutely levels above anyone else. I imagine it will be very very similar this season. That is not ludicrous to state dominance when these 2 stats, above other yes, but these show how good he is, just as he was the year before at Charlton. Also, what are you on about "how is that relevant?" of course it's relevant how he played for Charlton, with the fact he played incredibly well there and carried on in a similar fashion the next season and now this season, shows just how good he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 6 hours ago, Jubbs said: This was done after his injury, this shows his complete and utter dominance in midfield, absolutely levels above anyone else. I imagine it will be very very similar this season. That is not ludicrous to state dominance when these 2 stats, above other yes, but these show how good he is, just as he was the year before at Charlton. Also, what are you on about "how is that relevant?" of course it's relevant how he played for Charlton, with the fact he played incredibly well there and carried on in a similar fashion the next season and now this season, shows just how good he is. Football isn’t played on spreadsheets, it’s played on grass. You can manipulate statistics to tell whatever story you want. It’s just two aspects of his role within the team. Like I said, I am not disputing he is a good player. But I do dispute the over-the-top praise he is getting. You said he was one of the most dominant players in this league, so yes, his time at Charlton is not relevant because he didn’t play in the Championship with Charlton. Focusing on his time here, we can all see he has done well since his return and coped surprisingly well with the demands of playing regularly after such a tough injury. I think there’s obvious potential there, but the way you are carrying on about him is as if he has been running midfield for us for 100+ games and playing in a successful side. He’s played 25 games in a largely struggling and underperforming side. He has had some good games and some bad ones too. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 On 16/12/2020 at 19:40, David said: Absolutely love him, but he'll only be worth every penny if he can stay fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 4 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Absolutely love him, but he'll only be worth every penny if he can stay fit. If he stays fit? Sounds like he’s a regular in the treatment room. His ACL was his first serious injury in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, David said: If he stays fit? Sounds like he’s a regular in the treatment room. His ACL was his first serious injury in his career. He’s had injury problems before, hasn’t he? Anyway, let’s not get bogged down in this. Let’s appreciate the ability of the natural heir to George Thorne’s long-vacated throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: He’s had injury problems before, hasn’t he? Anyway, let’s not get bogged down in this. Let’s appreciate the ability of the natural heir to George Thorne’s long-vacated throne. Not as far as I’m aware, his injury history also only contains the ACL on transfermarkt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 12 minutes ago, David said: Not as far as I’m aware, his injury history also only contains the ACL on transfermarkt Didn't play a single game in 16/17 due to injury troubles apparently https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/arsenal-loanee-krystian-bielik-glad-to-put-injury-hell-behind-him-at-charlton-athletic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said: Didn't play a single game in 16/17 due to injury troubles apparently https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/arsenal-loanee-krystian-bielik-glad-to-put-injury-hell-behind-him-at-charlton-athletic/ I’m off to the confessional box, brb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladram Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Bielik is technically one, if not the best, midfielder in the Championship. He's not the finished article and last season, perhaps slightly overwhelmed by his price tag, tried to much when not match fit. Now he's showing his true class, as he's shown for Charlton and Poland. He'll get better, if he becomes a Derby legend depends on how long he stays not his ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Saunder’s hat trick Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 On 17/12/2020 at 15:09, Jourdan said: For Charlton, he played in League One, so how is that relevant? In his 20 games prior to injury, he was levels above everyone else, was he? Perhaps we have a different idea of dominant. How does losing eight games out of 20 suggest he was dominant? How does keeping four clean sheets out of 20 suggest he was dominant? How does losing six consecutive away games and conceding 13 in the process suggest he was dominant? How does being subbed off early in multiple games suggest he was dominant? Surely having such a dominant and influential defensive player would have seen a more positive impact on our defensive structure and organisation and our overall ability to stop the opposition? Yet during his first spell in the team, we had one of the most porous defences in the division. I am not disputing that he is a good player. He clearly is. But he has a long way to go before he can be levelled with such praise. To say he’s one of the most dominant players in the league at this stage in his Derby career is quite frankly ludicrous. He has achieved nothing yet in a Derby shirt. He’s playing very well at present and we’re not losing so people finally have something positive to talk about! Who can blame anyone for getting a little carried away. Let’s be glass half full for once for flips sake, it’s about blooming time we had something to cheer ain’t it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, David said: I’m off to the confessional box, brb I'll accept my apology in the form of a pint of Dark Fruits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Saunder’s hat trick Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 P.S. Bielik is deffo the new Zidane only better ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 Just now, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I'll accept my apology in the form of a pint of Dark Fruits. Not a chance I’m asking for one of those at the bar. I have a reputation to keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I'll accept my apology in the form of a pint of Dark Fruits. This one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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