New Manager

[CornwallRam]

4 minutes ago, S8TY said:

Then I am insane because I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole 

I didn't say the Derby way....so what youre saying is lets bring in a manager whos playing philosophy is totally different to whats been trying to happen here? If you bring in a manager who likes to play possesion based football it will mean we don't have to rip everything up....Mac came in and got us playing decent stuff with Cloughs players I'm saying bring in a like minded manager who won't go hoof ball but tweak things with a couple of additions thrown in

when Wigan played City in a live game in the cup last season or season before they went toe to toe with them playing some fast attacking possesion based football and got commended for it....Paul Cook is like what Chris Wilder was before he went to Sheff Utd ...a manager never given a proper oppurtunity at a big club.

Cook for me would be the choice , plays good stuff and knows the league well and means not a massive turnover of players/styles and football philosophy of how we've been trying to play.

Whether anyone likes it or not the more succesful sides keep the ball/ have more possesion ....its what you do when you have it that counts, so tweaks rather than an overhaul is required in my opinion 

Not in this division. That's a fallacy. 

[S8TY]

3 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Not in this division. That's a fallacy. 

Leeds United , Bournemouth and Swansea ? are 3 that quickly spring to mind all got out of this division playing possesion based attacking football

[S8TY]

and Wolves as another.....nice football scoring lots of goals 

[S8TY]

2 minutes ago, S8TY said:

and Wolves as another.....nice football scoring lots of goals 

Wolves made us look like Fotballing dinosaurs both at PP and at there place with Rowettball....All I'm saying is i don't want us to go down the Pulis,Allardyce route....Jokanovic,Cook, Eddie Howe yes

[Jubbs]

4 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Not in this division. That's a fallacy. 

Out of the last 7 seasons: 

3/21 sides that have been promoted have had less than 50% possession.

Those being:

Cardiff in 17/18 (Warnock)
Burnley 15/16 (Dyche)
Burnley 13/14 (Dyche)

Other than those 3, every other team that has been promoted since 13/14 have had higher than 50% possession.

[BondJovi]

Maybe I am alone but I don't feel we are in such a desperate situation that calls for a Big Sam and such.

I also don't believe we have the players to scrap our way out, but we do have the players to play our way out. Just more confusion for the players.

I would rather we stuck it out then go on a one season rescue mission but something has to change. 

I never wanted Mac to return but in this situation, it might be a solution that is more than just to the summer.

[CornwallRam]

Just now, S8TY said:

Leeds United , Bournemouth and Swansea ? are 3 that quickly spring to mind all got out of this division playing possesion based attacking football

Without looking at the stats I'll take your word that those three clubs had more possession than not. Certainly there are lots of ways to get promoted, as Burnley, Leicester and even our last successful campaign show. I did look at the stats last year and there was a clear bias against possession based teams in this division.

[CornwallRam]

14 minutes ago, S8TY said:

and Wolves as another.....nice football scoring lots of goals 

Wolves possession on promotion was 46%. There's a difference between possession and scoring goals.

[CornwallRam]

8 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

Out of the last 7 seasons: 

3/21 sides that have been promoted have had less than 50% possession.

Those being:

Cardiff in 17/18 (Warnock)
Burnley 15/16 (Dyche)
Burnley 13/14 (Dyche)

Other than those 3, every other team that has been promoted since 13/14 have had higher than 50% possession.

That's not true - Wolves https://footystats.org/clubs/england/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc

[Spanish]

52 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

I bet you did not go home pissed off every week when Billy Davis was the manager after we had won 1-0 in the champ.  If we are winning then most (maybe not you) will be happy.

Id take Big Sam if he were available.

West Ham won’t be happy with anyone who hasn’t got a time machine to take them back to Upton Park with Billy Bonds playing.

 

Deno

remember Geoff sterling every 2 weeks saying something like this; "we have a goal at Deepdale, we are in the 80th minute and Derby are away, I wonder who has scored? ".  Odd to think back now there was never a doubt it was us 

[S8TY]

2 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Wolves possession on promotion was 46%. There's a difference between possession and scoring goals.

I remember both games against Wolves very well as was at both and they played us off the park but not by hoofing it or playing percentage football ( I admit they had some good foreign imports mainly from Portugal ) but them players were comfortable on the ball and outplayed our archaeic style that Rowett was trying to play....we were awful 

[brady1993]

5 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

Out of the last 7 seasons: 

3/21 sides that have been promoted have had less than 50% possession.

Those being:

Cardiff in 17/18 (Warnock)
Burnley 15/16 (Dyche)
Burnley 13/14 (Dyche)

Other than those 3, every other team that has been promoted since 13/14 have had higher than 50% possession.

Alternative snapshot last year the top 4 were Leeds, West Brom, Brentford and Fulham. All of which were in the top 4 of highest average possession and top 5 pass success rate.

Leeds: 59.6% (1), 80.2% (2)

West Brom: 53.6% (4), 79.3% (5)

Brentford 55.4% (3), 79..8% (3)

Fulham: 58.1% (2), 83.2% (1)

In fact only cardiff out of the top 6 last year finished below 7th for possession and below 6th for pass success rate.

Without even doing a more formal analysis it's pretty clear that there is a very strong correlation between final position and how good you are as a team on the ball at this level and I'd wager it's getting stronger over time. Teams that go up who sit deep and willfully concede possession seem in the minority for finishing in the top 6. Also my gut call is those type of teams tend to more readily get found out either in the playoffs or when they get promoted.

 

[JfR]

13 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Wolves possession on promotion was 46%. There's a difference between possession and scoring goals.

That was in their first season in the Premier League, the season they got promoted they had an average possession of 53.4% (or thereabouts, different sites give slightly different numbers)

[Jubbs]

10 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

That's not true - Wolves https://footystats.org/clubs/england/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc

What? That link only links me to their current season, when I went to 17/18 it says they had 51% possession in 17/18.

This is backed up/they even had more:

fbref - https://fbref.com/en/comps/10/1627/2017-2018-Championship-Stats (had 54.4% possession)
fctables - https://www.fctables.com/england/championship/2017_2018/ (had 52.41%)

[Jubbs]

Just now, JfR said:

That was in their first season in the Premier League, the season they got promoted they had an average possession of 53.4% (or thereabouts, different sites give slightly different numbers)

Worth noting all of these other websites with different figures all have Wolves above 50% possession.

[RadioactiveWaste]

I'm happy enough to get a pragmatist in for the short term.

Big Sam would cost a lot for what he brings but would no doubt be effective.

Tony Pulis would be giving up on anything except misery-ball.

Big Mick (although he's in Greece apparently) is actually OK.

Paul Cook, at least is on the upswing of a career.

Lets face it, it almost doesn't matter who it is, the fact that it is a change is the biggest immediate thing.

[brady1993]

15 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Wolves possession on promotion was 46%. There's a difference between possession and scoring goals.

That doesn't seem like the right possesion amount, according to whoscored:

[CornwallRam]

4 minutes ago, S8TY said:

I remember both games against Wolves very well as was at both and they played us off the park but not by hoofing it or playing percentage football ( I admit they had some good foreign imports mainly from Portugal ) but them players were comfortable on the ball and outplayed our archaeic style that Rowett was trying to play....we were awful 

Agree with that. I like my football to be aggressive and on the front foot - as Wolves play it and as Leicester played it in this division. Possession for possession sake is pointless and is not successful. As I mentioned earlier, I'd prefer Jokanovic or Wagner to Allardyce.

But I think so many have a false impression of Allardyce's game. It's never hoofball. It's always well organised at the back. It's always aggressive in attack. It's the transition and the midfield set up that he varies to suit the plyers available. Sometimes he'll sit back and invite teams on to hit them on the counter. His Bolton side  passed short and quick, using wingers and overlapping full backs to develop their attacks. I think our current squad is perfectly suited to that style and completely unsuited to Cocu's possession based style. 

[brady1993]

19 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

That's not true - Wolves https://footystats.org/clubs/england/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc

Had a look at that website and I think you are looking at the wrong season. 

According to that site Wolves had 51% (which is lower than most other stat sites say) for 17/18 the season they went. 

46% is the season after, when they hit the prem.

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

Stato war....