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dantheram

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21 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

Allardyce actually took charge of Everton when they were 13th. They finished 8th. Whilst under Allardyce's management, Everton were ranked 20th for total shots, 19th for total shots on target, 16th for passing accuracy and 17th for shots faced. The club is proud of our academy, as are the fans, do we want to completely ruin it by appointing Allardyce, who was accused of not playing youth at West Ham, who pride themselves on their academy too?

Jesus Christ. Do you want success or not? 

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13 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

I'd argue appointing Rooney isn't a stable long term choice for us. The first whiff of success (if that ever materialised) and we end up in a Lampard situation when he clears off for a perceived bigger job.

We will only ever be a stepping stone for Rooney's managerial career, or he crashes and burns and we suffer. 

Either way Derby don't get much out of it. 

a successful manager is always likely to be poached from us by a more successful club.  Rooney or whoever.  Would be great to be in a position like that rather than having someone like Cocu whose results mean ihe is hardly the top of anybody's list.  

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15 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Because like Forest, we are a child of Clough. Certain clubs have expectations based on the style in which they won things, some dont...its why Pulis could succeed at Stoke & Pearson at Leicester.

Its also the reason both clubs are languishing where we are because attractive football isn't a quick fix, the lack of success leads to knee jerk reactions to bring a results-based manager, they either dont succeed or get driven out & the whole vicious circle starts all over again. 

I think whilst that's a fair point, I actually think why attractive football seems to matter a lot to a lot of people particularly on this forum is down to McClaren.  Once you've seen that a side mostly assembled on the cheap with a few academy players thrown in can play attractive football at this level and demonstrates that it can be successful it's very hard to swallow a healthy dose of Pragmatism(TM). And given that I think it's a fair guess to suggest this forum skews younger it's quite reasonable that 13/14 is head and shoulders the best season they can properly remember.

My view point on the matter has always that it's pointless to focus on success at any cost when success means mid table in the premiership and the only way we would theoretically break beyond that is by one of two paths; A comically massive amount of investment or having a fairly unique model of operation (even then that's probably not close to top 4). It's why we've put a lot of focus on the academy and it's why it would be downright dumb to throw that under the bus because if we are going to have anything close to serious success it's going to be fueled on the back of the academy. Ultimately when I watch Derby I want 3 things; play good football, bring through talented academy players and try to do better than last time.

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13 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

I think the point we are trying to make is that to the likes of Rooney and Terry we are only ever the first rung of the ladder to them. As soon as the next step presents itself they are off, regardless of the situation that leaves us with. You cannot plan longer term with them in charge. 

An older head or a less marketable name, that has been there and done it might fancy bedding down for a longer term project. 

 

Even if we are the first rung in the ladder, it doesn't mean they will be off after 1 successful season. What happened to Lampard was a complete one-off. For Rooney/Terry to leave for a bigger club, they would have to achieve something at Derby e.g. promotion. I'd take a big club buying our manager every season if it meant every season was like Lampard's.

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It’s all about opinions and we all have one ,, for me I would go with big Sam , these are my reasons,not arguments to say other opinion is wrong ,just my reasons

i believe he is a very solid manager who would get us out of trouble and build a side to get us up

i believe big Sam knows the chance of a really big name/big budget club is gone for him and as such could easily see Derby as the next best type of club where he could finish his career and really prove a point 

I believe he is very much capable of building a good footballing side competing in the prem given time if that’s his remit 

I don’t believe for one second that if Derby academy is established in the way it’s intended and starts attracting and producing real talent that he or pretty much any other manager is going to ignore that talent under his nose,

big Sam is my pick but as I say it’s opinions and there’s plenty who wouldn’t want him??‍♂️

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37 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

Even if we are the first rung in the ladder, it doesn't mean they will be off after 1 successful season. What happened to Lampard was a complete one-off. For Rooney/Terry to leave for a bigger club, they would have to achieve something at Derby e.g. promotion. I'd take a big club buying our manager every season if it meant every season was like Lampard's.

But how would DCFC be successful then? 

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2 minutes ago, Archied said:

It’s all about opinions and we all have one ,, for me I would go with big Sam , these are my reasons,not arguments to say other opinion is wrong ,just my reasons

i believe he is a very solid manager who would get us out of trouble and build a side to get us up

i believe big Sam knows the chance of a really big name/big budget club is gone for him and as such could easily see Derby as the next best type of club where he could finish his career and really prove a point 

I believe he is very much capable of building a good footballing side competing in the prem given time if that’s his remit 

I don’t believe for one second that if Derby academy is established in the way it’s intended and starts attracting and producing real talent that he or pretty much any other manager is going to ignore that talent under his nose,

big Sam is my pick but as I say it’s opinions and there’s plenty who wouldn’t want him??‍♂️

I wouldn't be against him at the moment, but i would only want it to be until the end of the season to save us from relegation. 

I do not want his style of football long term, even though it is effective its not very entertaining at all. 

But, big Sam would not agree to a 6 month contract anyway, and also i cant see Mac recommending him as its just not the Derby way

The majority of our squad are not suited to Big Sam's playing style so he would have to buy a lot of players and honestly he is not the type that really utilises academy players. 

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48 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

Even if we are the first rung in the ladder, it doesn't mean they will be off after 1 successful season. What happened to Lampard was a complete one-off. For Rooney/Terry to leave for a bigger club, they would have to achieve something at Derby e.g. promotion. I'd take a big club buying our manager every season if it meant every season was like Lampard's.

I disagree to be honest.

If Rooney did even a mediocre job with us I believe he would get a chance elsewhere because he is Wayne Rooney. Same with John Terry. That is my concern with this sort of big name appointment. 

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3 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

I meant getting to the play-off final every season , We'd win one eventually.

Are you sure about that? Do you know what the Derby way means??

If it did, what would happen the following season in the prem, we'd just go straight back down. Probably turning into a West Brom type club. 

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2 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

I disagree to be honest.

If Rooney did even a mediocre job with us I believe he would get a chance elsewhere because he is Wayne Rooney. Same with John Terry. That is my concern with this sort of big name appointment. 

I could only see it happening with Rooney to Man United or Everton which seems unlikely, and Chelsea or Villa with Terry. I could definitely see it happening with Villa and Terry to be honest now I think about it.

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52 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

Even if we are the first rung in the ladder, it doesn't mean they will be off after 1 successful season. What happened to Lampard was a complete one-off. For Rooney/Terry to leave for a bigger club, they would have to achieve something at Derby e.g. promotion. I'd take a big club buying our manager every season if it meant every season was like Lampard's.

2 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

I disagree to be honest.

If Rooney did even a mediocre job with us I believe he would get a chance elsewhere because he is Wayne Rooney. Same with John Terry. That is my concern with this sort of big name appointment. 

It is also a concern for me, but if they can get us into the prem then we would become one of the top 15-20 clubs, why would they leave then?  Cant see Chelsea wanting Terry over Lampard, Same with Man Utd and Solskjaer. Would Everton want Rooney over Carlo Ancelotti? i highly doubt it. 

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1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said:

I wouldn't be against him (Allardyce) at the moment, but i would only want it to be until the end of the season to save us from relegation.

"Well, it's like this Sam, we're only offering you a 6 month contract to ensure that we do not get relegated. You can make the football as turgid as you like. It does not matter because at the end of the season, we will bring in someone new and exciting. We are certain that they will be able to secure promotion for us; we just do not want to risk letting them save us from relegation this season. Even if we are only a couple of points behind those above us and there are 30 odd games left. It's just too big a risk. Besides, it's more fun them having to learn about our players during a pre-season that someone else has arranged"

?‍♂️ For the love of Ada!!

In fairness to you @Chris_Martin you did say Allardyce wouldn't agree to a 6 month deal anyway. But why are people so panicked, with such a small gap of points to make up and 30 odd games left?

We have all said so many times that it's all the "new starts with new managers" that have left us in this mess. A few of us had hoped that appointing Cocu would end that cycle but, alas, it did not work out. But, please let's not panic and make appointments for just 6 months....we need a longer term strategy than that.

Edit: And there are suggestions in this thread that we should not appoint a young manager in case they are successful and are poached by someone else. @RoyMac5 has been the voice of reason for this - as he says, would you rather have an unsuccessful manager that doesn't attract potential suitors?

Sheesh, shall we not play Knight, Sibley, Bird and Buchanan in case their form alerts potential buyers???

Just have a BIG release clause in their contracts if you are that worried.

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3 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

"Well, it's like this Sam, we're only offering you a 6 month contract to ensure that we do not get relegated. You can make the football as turgid as you like. It does not matter because at the end of the season, we will bring in someone new and exciting. We are certain that they will be able to secure promotion for us; we just do not want to risk letting them save us from relegation this season. Even if we are only a couple of points behind those above us and there are 30 odd games left. It's just too big a risk. Besides, it's more fun them having to learn about our players during a pre-season that someone else has arranged"

?‍♂️ For the love of Ada!!

In fairness to you @Chris_Martin you did say Allardyce wouldn't agree to a 6 month deal anyway. But why are people so panicked, with such a small gap of points to make up and 30 odd games left?

We have all said so many times that it's all the "new starts with new managers" that have left us in this mess. A few of us had hoped that appointing Cocu would end that cycle but, alas, it did not work out. But, please let's not panic and make appointments for just 6 months....we need a longer term strategy than that.

You are way too smart and thoughtful a poster to be making this many assumptions about how a Derby side managed by Big Sam (and Wayne!) would play. You don't know it would be turgid. If there's one thing I learnt from Cocu, it's that you can't ever guess how a team will turn out under a manager, no matter how their previous teams played.

And for what it's worth, I don't think we should be handing out any six month contracts either. If you bring in Sam, or anyone else, give them a two, three year deal. Give them time to build a team.

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18 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

it's all the "new starts with new managers" that have left us in this mess

No it’s not. It’s the previous manager leaving us an unbalanced side. Lets not forget that he inherited a side that had just lost at Wembley. The fact that he didn’t/couldn’t secure decent loans to match the ones that had just departed, is not Lampard’s fault! 

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2 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

The fact that he didn’t/couldn’t secure decent loans to match the ones that had just departed, is not Lampard’s fault! 

Name me 3 players who could've replaced the quality of Mount, Wilson and Tomori, that were available for loan. I'll wait. 

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Just now, Jubbs said:

Name me 3 players who could've replaced the quality of Mount, Wilson and Tomori, that were available for loan. I'll wait. 

Why you asking me? I didnt know those three before we signed them on loan, AND I’m not the 100+ cap Dutch International ex-Barcelona player with a vast knowledge of european football and massive list of contacts to exploit. 
 

 

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