But is it the motivation, the tactics or - just plain and simple - the ability of the squad?

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

Gypsy curse wasn’t an option

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

Or Steve Gibson has a Rammie voodoo doll

[Jourdan]

I think complacency and momentum are two massive factors in where we are currently.

We ended last season in terrible form - 1 win and 4 defeats in six - and looking a shadow of the team that made a late charge for the play off places.

Everyone brushed it off because we were playing some of the best teams in the league at that time.

However because of the short turnaround between one season and the next - six weeks from our last competitive game in 2019-20 to our first in 2020-21 - we never really had time for a genuine reset and the momentum, or lack of, carried through to this season.

Pre-season should have set off massive alarm bells at the club because the problems that plagued us in the final stages of last season seemed very apparent and we didn’t look like a club primed for a positive season. But again we brushed it off and found reasoning to justify it.

The early weeks of the season followed a similar pattern. We kept losing games or playing poorly and the issues were being ignored.

In the same way, Forest have suffered a hangover from last season. And in the opposite way, teams like Swansea, Luton and Barnsley who all ended last season in good form and high spirits have seen that translate into results this season.

In short, if we wanted to reverse that trajectory, we needed to act more quickly. Giving Cocu 11 league games this season only allowed a poor run of form to become a serious rot.

When it reaches that stage, the quality of players you have becomes irrelevant. It becomes about mentality of the group and the man management skills of the manager. And clearly we are very fragile right now.

The sad thing is that even now the club are still being complacent, having allowed Rooney, Rosenior and the interim management to oversee four games and merely compound our problems.

[CornwallRam]

Pretty much every manager in the Championship is good at organising their defenders. The players themselves may be variable in quality, but give any side in this division 20 seconds to organise and you have a packed defence which can only be undone by a defensive mistake or something brilliant from the attack.

Speed and movement of attacks is crucial. It can be fast passing, hoofing it up to a big striker, beating the opposition with pace, switching play to the opposite flank or even early crossing (we're always more dangerous when Forsyth plays even though that causes other issues) - the key is to get a shooting chance before the defence have time to get organised.

We are too slow and methodical in attack. We give the defence that time to get organised, and we don't have enough brilliance in our side to break them down. It started under Lampard, but the problems were masked by having Wilson and Mount. Cocu then took the lethargy to a new level. Martin's quick thinking helped for a while, but Cocu's inappropriate coaching has instilled a fatal slowness to our attacking play.

It will take a long while to repair the damage. The players are struggling to suddenly change to a more direct style, especially as to be really effective, such tactics require rock solid organisation, which is impossible given the off-field chaos. I fear that it might be too late to rectify.

So the coaching and tactics are the reason that the players are currently not good enough.

[brady1993]

Just now, Ambitious said:

Sibley can do that and can absolutely do the defensive part of the game. I didn't really have Sibley down as an attacking midfielder until he got into the first team. He was always box to box in the U18s and U23s (alright often in more advanced positions) but rarely did I ever see him play as a number 10. He's certainly not a lightweight player and will give as good as he gets. 

To be honest I think I might be cracking up with how obvious it seems to try him in a 433, he looks dangerous when he can float into space and then look to drive at the opposition from deep. As a #10 he often ends up in a position where it's easy to crowd out his space because he's starting further forward and so he either has to drop backwards which leaves the striker isolated or stay in a crowded area. 

It's just baffling to me at this point we've not even considered trying a 433 given the players we have.

[BondJovi]

We were all waiting for the return of Lawrence and Waghorn from injury. Lawrence was excellent in his first game back but has gradually got worse and worse. Their decision making is terrible.

They have gone from being the supporting cast to the leading roles and just haven't stepped up.  Thats nearly half our goals dried up there. We wait and see if CKR can replace Martin's input.

I don't believe we are that bad defensively, we make stupid mistakes but the lack of goals puts far too much pressure on the defence. We do create chances, more lately but you would be incredibly disappointed if you didn't create more against Wycombe and Coventry.

We lack pace in all areas. The one player who seems willing to run at players is Whittaker and he has had very few minutes recently. Which I do not understand. 

I think it is a combination of all the issues. A deeper problem though is that senior players simply haven't played well enough, our young players have done fine. Buchanan has come in for his first full season of senior football and has out performed most players, except Knight, who happens to be in his second full season. I don't see enough personal pride in the performance and that can only come from the player themself. I don't think Rooney (post lockdown) set a good example. If nothing else than letting himself get so out of shape.

Interesting to see that Mark Robbins saw Lawrence and Holmes as the main threat. I think that says a lot about where we are.

 

[Rammy03]

7 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Pretty much every manager in the Championship is good at organising their defenders. The players themselves may be variable in quality, but give any side in this division 20 seconds to organise and you have a packed defence which can only be undone by a defensive mistake or something brilliant from the attack.

The problem is we just don't have that mentality or determination to stop goals going in the net. All we had to do was see out 10 minutes last night but we simply couldn't do it. And I wasn't even surprised when Coventry scored, players were jogging around, standing off players and just not showing that attitude of 'over my dead body are you scoring past us.' It's really poor. From a side that are bottom we just don't seem to have that grit.

[minesahartington]

IMO we lack cohesion, teamwork and the ability to create or find space for each other. It’s like a team of individuals lacking clear leadership both on the pitch and off it.   Kazz at least tried to rouse the players last night. Also Staying with Buchanan when he was hurt showed he has the character to care. Sadly lacking elsewhere at the moment

[Ghost of Clough]

Mentality. Partly because of our long run of bad form, when we get a goal we automatically go defensive to hold on to what we have. Making defensive subs just after we score continues to feed that mentality.

[wollatonram]

people that still rate our squad have their heads burried firmly in the sand. we have no championship consisistent performers, thats why we will be a league 1 club next season. the squad was never good enough and the lack of investment from mel morris is criminal

[CROSSWORD]

Its the losing mentality thats so hard to break.Affects everyone at the club.

We,ve all seen it ,players so scared of losing their confidence is shot,not wanting to risk a forward pass,not running into space etc.

As has been said we need experience at the helm to change this."Winning is,nt everything ,but wanting to win is"

We need a Big Sam imo.

[YorkshireRam]

It's the lack of tactics at the minute:

The lack of overlapping runs, the lack of one-touch, quick passing, the lack of understanding of our best XI and getting them playing well together. 

So I don't think it ''the tactics are not working out'', I don't think there are any to begin with...

[Parsnip]

It's confidence innit. A good manager will get them playing again. Except Tom. He just doesn't try hard enough. He's a very naughty boy.

[BrudeRAM]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

When it reaches that stage, the quality of players you have becomes irrelevant. It becomes about mentality of the group and the man management skills of the manager. And clearly we are very fragile right now.

^ This ^ . I'm guilty more than most for demanding more grit, commitment, fight, etc from players but I think saying they don't care is a cop out. Genuinely think it's more of a confidence issue than players not wanting to win or refusing to give their all.

Interesting to see the poll results and read the thread though. Imo our squad is more than good enough to stay up and I think its the tactics and loss of form keeping us down. If that's the case it's a little encouraging seeing as tactics can be changed and form can turn rather than players just not being up to it. 

[jimtastic56]

I think that even with Klopp as manager , the squad would never be good enough to get near the play offs. Therefore we go back again to recruitment since Nigel left. We have bought the likes of Blackman and turned our noses up at the likes of Watkins . How do Brentford get it so right? Also it would have helped if the academy could have produced a decent striker.

[minesahartington]

1 hour ago, Beetroot said:

It's confidence innit. A good manager will get them playing again. Except Tom. He just doesn't try hard enough. He's a very naughty boy.

He is certainly not our saviour..

[Sparkle]

3 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

The gap for me is not that the whole team is rubbish but in key areas.

1: We missed at least three gilt edged chances last night - two from CKR and one from Stretton. Winning teams can't do that. You need to have strikers who take chances, not every single one but you'd hope for >50% of the gimme ones.

2: The gap between midfield and defence is Grand Canyon sized, it feels like we lack any steel at all in the DM area. And it leaves us wide open in the way the Covvy goal demonstrated.

3: We are carrying players, notably Lawrence. He is so negative and uninspiring in his play, I think he knows he's not able to beat a man so just passes back and sideways most of the time. It kills the impetus again and again.

4: Where we do fall down is everything through midfield and attack through the centre. It's like we have a gaping hole where the likes of Bryson, Hendrick, Hughes, Martin, Bent, Oakley, Howard, Barnes, and many more names I could mention should be. It's just not there.

On the positive:

1: Byrne and Buchanan look good, at least as good as Lowe and Foz and they were good enough for the top end of this division.

2: It's been years since we had a keeper we could rely on.

3: If we can get some support in front of the back four they are good enough, but it's a bit hopeless expecting them to also cover half the role of midfield as well. Look at someone like Sounness, he would run back into his own half and demand the ball off of Hansen. Last night Bielik could have run all the way down the A52 before some actually bothered to be there for him.

I agree with most of that but we must bear in mind our positive players are mainly the youngsters whilst the likes of Lawrence, Holmes, belick and Clarke have only played at this level for us or say in Lawrence case ipswich and Cardiff on loan - this is the highest league standard they have played any number of games in and they are simply not the great talented players some people think they are.

[Parsnip]

11 minutes ago, minesahartington said:

He is certainly not our saviour..

Or the messiah?

[falconram]

This had been going on for seasons, we got carried away under Frank, had it not been for Mason Mount we wouldn't have got into the play offs, remember how bad we were without him and we had Wilson and Tomori playing. Lampard ows his managerial career to Mount because without him would have been in a very simular position as today. 

[DCFC Kicks]

I place most of the blame on Cocu still. Apart from the Boro game, every game since he left they've performed better (still not great performances by any means) but still an improvement, and that's with a ridiculous committee in charge where none of the 4 have any managerial experience and with Rooney in charge who hasn't even got all the coaching qualifications. How bad do you have to be to be out performed by that?