But is it the motivation, the tactics or - just plain and simple - the ability of the squad?

[IslandExile]

We all have our opinions on Cocu, the committee, Rosenior and Rooney along with the myriad of new managers that we think should be considered.

But I keep wondering if the problem is that the players in the squad are just not good enough.

I used to think they were good enough for at least a mid-table finish and, taking each individually I think they all have real merits. But I am starting to have doubts.

Looking at the games this season - under all the managers - the players have put the effort in. So I do not think that's an issue.

Since the committee took over, and certainly since Rooney took full control, the tactics have changed - we are now more direct than under Cocu. Perhaps, not to the full extent that some would like but nevertheless, there has been a change. So tactics - and team selection - are possibly still open questions.

The last possibility for the poor performances, results and - very obviously - scarcity of chances created is down to the ability (maybe confidence comes in aswell) of the players....

If you think how the squad has evolved - just since Lampard - we have lost the three fantastic loanees that I believe dragged us into the playoffs. The captain (his fault) who I think we're missing on the pitch. Senior players - yes Martin obviously, but also Huddlestone, Johnson and even Nugent (for his attitude).

If you look at Lampard's squad - without those - it's more or less what we are left with now - and it's not very good.

Edit: Last season, we finished 10th but Rooney was in great form which helped. He has not played so well since lockdown.

I gave the reasons why I thought our problems were deep rooted - and which has resulted in the quality of the players in this thread from a little while back:

https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/36174-deep-rooted-problems/?tab=comments#comment-1994731

I emphasise again - I am not blaming any of the players for this - I think they are putting the effort in and they are trying to implement the tactics asked of them.

So my question is:

Is it the tactics, team selection, lack of motivation or ability of the players?

Hey, let's have a poll ?

[mwram1973]

can't see how we go from a consistent top 10 side to a rock bottom side in a few months.

Tactics and philosophy for me from cocu, will take a while to knock it out of em, WHOEVER is in charge.

imo.

[IslandExile]

1 minute ago, mwram1973 said:

can't see how we go from a consistent top 10 side to a rock bottom side in a few months.

Tactics and philosophy for me from cocu, will take a while to knock it out of em, WHOEVER is in charge.

imo.

Yeah, I should have said that after the three great loanees under Lampard, last season we had Rooney in great form.

I'll see if I still have time to add that.

[Eatonram]

Physicality/strength/size/fitness/pace......Call it what you want, it's not "ability" as such, but we are easily "dominated" physically.

[JoetheRam]

Players not being very good is the primary reason but all of the above are contributing factors.

A good manager could have them maybe 7 places higher in the league, a great manager could have them pushing for play offs but fundamentally there is a massive lack of any sort of quality in key areas.

[IslandExile]

Just now, Eatonram said:

Physicality/strength/size/fitness/pace......Call it what you want, it's not "ability" as such, but we are easily "dominated" physically.

Yeah, I should have added that. I think it's an excellent point.

Pace - just by itself - is a major factor lacking in any team that we put out.

[Rammy03]

I think it's a combination of the lot

[RadioactiveWaste]

I think it's a mentality thing first and foremost.

Teams and players with apparently less ability but better attitudes are having more success than us.

However, the other points about tactics and selections are also contributing.

I think the ability is actually there in them, i needs unlocking. Confiance and belief.

[archram]

As usual I think it’s a coming together of most of the options mentioned.
Mind you, I listened to Rooney’s press conference before the last match. You probably have to practise a lot to be as uninspiring in tone of speech as that.

[IslandExile]

Yeah, I agree that it is a combination of all those factors - and more as folks have pointed out.

I tried to word the question as the "primary reason" but maybe it's too complicated, too involved to be able to pick just one thing out.

[BaaLocks]

The gap for me is not that the whole team is rubbish but in key areas.

1: We missed at least three gilt edged chances last night - two from CKR and one from Stretton. Winning teams can't do that. You need to have strikers who take chances, not every single one but you'd hope for >50% of the gimme ones.

2: The gap between midfield and defence is Grand Canyon sized, it feels like we lack any steel at all in the DM area. And it leaves us wide open in the way the Covvy goal demonstrated.

3: We are carrying players, notably Lawrence. He is so negative and uninspiring in his play, I think he knows he's not able to beat a man so just passes back and sideways most of the time. It kills the impetus again and again.

4: Where we do fall down is everything through midfield and attack through the centre. It's like we have a gaping hole where the likes of Bryson, Hendrick, Hughes, Martin, Bent, Oakley, Howard, Barnes, and many more names I could mention should be. It's just not there.

On the positive:

1: Byrne and Buchanan look good, at least as good as Lowe and Foz and they were good enough for the top end of this division.

2: It's been years since we had a keeper we could rely on.

3: If we can get some support in front of the back four they are good enough, but it's a bit hopeless expecting them to also cover half the role of midfield as well. Look at someone like Sounness, he would run back into his own half and demand the ball off of Hansen. Last night Bielik could have run all the way down the A52 before some actually bothered to be there for him.

[Mafiabob]

Lack of desire for me

[BBG83]

Cocu was part way through a purge of the squad. What’s left is a skeleton of what was a good squad. We’d need our so called better players to really step up and carry the rest, but unfortunately they’re not able to and they don’t have the character for it.

Rooney, given all his playing experience couldn’t step up so no chance anyone else will now they’ve seen him literally give up.

[Ambitious]

I feel there is a severe lack in strategy. We probably enter the final third at a volume among the best teams in our division, but we tend to fall down NOT at the final ball, but in the passage before the final ball. 

We don't create mismatches in the box, we don't overload the front/back post... we simply have no strategy. It's like we're built to play out from the back, which we've done quite well this season, but there seems to be a lack of understanding in the final third. 

The problems of this team is absolutely coaching. The team has enough technical ability to play at the top end of this division, but with structure or strategy then it's worthless. If you have someone run to the front post, naturally defenders follow and if you have someone at the back post then they naturally have more space. 

We have all the technology in the world, yet we lack the knowledge and coaching in order to use it to our advantage. I honestly think you could pick names out of a hat and we wouldn't be any worse off. I don't think it's a lack of desire or motivation, but we're a dumb team and run by a dumb coaching department. 

 

[Cam the Ram]

The players are not being motivated/inspired by the manager/coach

The players heads never fail to drop after conceding and they rarely hold onto leads. For whatever reason the staff this season have failed to instil any belief amongst the team and they honestly look like they play with fear even when against teams like Wycombe, Coventry, Barnsley etc. It seems like no one wants to make a mistake so they don't take any risks and so they just play the simple pass and put the burden on their teammate to create something. The irony is that they seem so fearful of even making the mistake of hoofing it long and giving up possession that they make more mistakes with their simple passes because it becomes so predictable. 

Worryingly, some of the players seem more motivated by being able to 'silence their critics' (Derby fans) rather than performing well for a club that pays them a lot of money.

The tactics are not working out (includes formation and substitutions)

Many of us on here (even those who usually manage to remain positive during the bad times) have been displeased with the subs in particular this season. We often have people on the bench who may be able to impact the game but they're given just 5-10 minutes to do so. And then there's the problem of shuffling the defence when we're trying to hold onto a lead. Byrne usually gets brought off and we've got the centre back partnership changing and having to quickly get on the same terms and the team loses that out ball that Byrne will usually offer on the wing because Wisdom doesn't get forward as much. I can see the reason for getting more players who are better in the air onto the pitch but take off a midfielder so the defence doesn't have to reshuffle so late into a game. 

The team selection is wrong too often, includes squad rotation

Poor Jason Knight has had to play on the left wing in a 4-2-3-1, on the right wing in a 4-2-3-1, as a centre mid sitting in front of 3 centre backs, on the left in front of Buchanan when we were playing 3-4-3, in the number 10 role when we were playing 3-5-2, in the number 10 role when we were playing 4-2-3-1 and finally as 1 of the holding mids in a 4-2-3-1. 15 games into the season and Knight hasn't had a run of over 3 games playing in the same position. There's plenty more players who've been moved around throughout the season, Holmes down the middle and the right, Wisdom at right back and centre back, Evans in holding mid and centre back, Jozwiak and Lawrence on the left, right and through the middle, Rooney as a holding mid, number 10 and up front etc. It's nice having players who can cover multiple positions, but it doesn't mean they have to. Get a core of the team chosen, get them playing together regularly so they can develop an understanding with each other and work from there. 

The players, despite their efforts, are just not good enough

It's hard to put forward much of an argument after how poo they've been this season, but I think this team is more than good enough to be a lot higher in the table. We made a mess of the striker situation during the transfer window but the team should still have enough good players to contribute goals from other areas of the pitch. 

[Nuwtfly]

Needed an: "all of the above" option,  @IslandExile?

[Anag Ram]

6 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

The gap for me is not that the whole team is rubbish but in key areas.

1: We missed at least three gilt edged chances last night - two from CKR and one from Stretton. Winning teams can't do that. You need to have strikers who take chances, not every single one but you'd hope for >50% of the gimme ones.

2: The gap between midfield and defence is Grand Canyon sized, it feels like we lack any steel at all in the DM area. And it leaves us wide open in the way the Covvy goal demonstrated.

3: We are carrying players, notably Lawrence. He is so negative and uninspiring in his play, I think he knows he's not able to beat a man so just passes back and sideways most of the time. It kills the impetus again and again.

4: Where we do fall down is everything through midfield and attack through the centre. It's like we have a gaping hole where the likes of Bryson, Hendrick, Hughes, Martin, Bent, Oakley, Howard, Barnes, and many more names I could mention should be. It's just not there.

On the positive:

1: Byrne and Buchanan look good, at least as good as Lowe and Foz and they were good enough for the top end of this division.

2: It's been years since we had a keeper we could rely on.

3: If we can get some support in front of the back four they are good enough, but it's a bit hopeless expecting them to also cover half the role of midfield as well. Look at someone like Sounness, he would run back into his own half and demand the ball off of Hansen. Last night Bielik could have run all the way down the A52 before some actually bothered to be there for him.

We don't have a midfield player with the skill to carry the ball at pace and make/score chances.

Sibley plays best as a 10 and can't do the defensive bit. Shinnie, Holmes and Knight are runners and harriers, not touch players, and Bielik and Bird would get a nosebleed in the box. 

Louie Watson in the U23s shows promise but isn't ready yet. 

We have struggled to find three whose skills complement each other. 

As a consequence we alternate between too slow and too panicked. 

[IslandExile]

Another major factor that could be contributing and that I was extremely negligent to omit is the uncertainty surrounding the club...

First with the EFL charge, the transfer embargo, Mel clearly wanting out, no budget for transfers even when the embargo was lifted and, now, the protracted takeover.

I know players always say that such matters are off the pitch and do not affect them but, as employees of the club, it must have an impact.

[IslandExile]

3 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Needed an: "all of the above" option,  @IslandExile?

Aye, I knew that would get 100% of the votes though.

[Ambitious]

1 minute ago, Anag Ram said:

We don't have a midfield player with the skill to carry the ball at pace and make/score chances.

Sibley plays best as a 10 and can't do the defensive bit. Shinnie, Holmes and Knight are runners and harriers, not touch players, and Bielik and Bird would get a nosebleed in the box. 

Louie Watson in the U23s shows promise but isn't ready yet. 

We have struggled to find three whose skills complement each other. 

As a consequence we alternate between too slow and too panicked. 

Sibley can do that and can absolutely do the defensive part of the game. I didn't really have Sibley down as an attacking midfielder until he got into the first team. He was always box to box in the U18s and U23s (alright often in more advanced positions) but rarely did I ever see him play as a number 10. He's certainly not a lightweight player and will give as good as he gets.