Ellafella Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Great analysis by @11pts1win who is worth a follow. Cocuball’s legacy is as follows: 1. Having allowed your best striker to leave, prove you didn’t need him anyway by only passing sideways and backwards. That is a caricature obviously but it’s the residual as evidenced by our typical match profile. This is what the permanent successor now has to erase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew3000 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Not at all saying Rooney us the answer but I think by mixing up the play more we are already creating and shooting more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 41 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said: Not at all saying Rooney us the answer but I think by mixing up the play more we are already creating and shooting more. Yes. That was evident on Saturday versus Wycombe. I expect more to come V Coventry. Maybe SM will have by then added some timely observations to Wazza’s perceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, Ellafella said: Yes. That was evident on Saturday versus Wycombe. I expect more to come V Coventry. Maybe SM will have by then added some timely observations to Wazza’s perceptions. Might see more of Stretton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 53 minutes ago, Ellafella said: I was saying this all last season - Our strikers were actually pretty good at converting chances - We just weren't creating enough of them It's no surprise that Cocu went out and made wingers/creative players a priority - We got done at the start of the season by Lawrence and Waggers being out and having to rely on loads of inexperienced (but good) players to be our sole chance creators - Didn't bring Jozwiak in quick enough (thanks to that transfer embargo) and went with a still not yet fit Ibe as our other option - Plus not being able to get a Martin replacement over the line Need to get Lawrence, Jozwiak, Sibley and Ibe properly up to speed - Giving them freedom with a proper defensive midfield cover behind them and we'll get some goals (I hope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Might see more of Stretton? I’d like to see more @RoyMac5What would you say is his USP? He’s bagged a few for the U23s but they’re a good side and often put on a plate. Looks slender, good feet but what else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Ellafella said: Great analysis by @11pts1win who is worth a follow. Cocuball’s legacy is as follows: 1. Having allowed your best striker to leave, prove you didn’t need him anyway by only passing sideways and backwards. That is a caricature obviously but it’s the residual as evidenced by our typical match profile. This is what the permanent successor now has to erase. I feel we all need to get past that Cocu allowed Martin to go and chose not to replace him. My understanding was Cocu wanted Martin and another striker. Other than saying who he wants, the manager's hands are tied. The lack of striker is a failing above Cocu. Other than that, carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 20 minutes ago, cheron85 said: I was saying this all last season - Our strikers were actually pretty good at converting chances - We just weren't creating enough of them It's no surprise that Cocu went out and made wingers/creative players a priority - We got done at the start of the season by Lawrence and Waggers being out and having to rely on loads of inexperienced (but good) players to be our sole chance creators - Didn't bring Jozwiak in quick enough (thanks to that transfer embargo) and went with a still not yet fit Ibe as our other option - Plus not being able to get a Martin replacement over the line Need to get Lawrence, Jozwiak, Sibley and Ibe properly up to speed - Giving them freedom with a proper defensive midfield cover behind them and we'll get some goals (I hope) We haven't been a creative team for a few seasons now. At least Cocu wanted players who would address this problem. Lampard just covered it with loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, BondJovi said: I feel we all need to get past that Cocu allowed Martin to go and chose not to replace him. My understanding was Cocu wanted Martin and another striker. Other than saying who he wants, the manager's hands are tied. The lack of striker is a failing above Cocu. Other than that, carry on. It’s irrelevant really what the cause was. Fact is it happened and is irrevocably tied to Cocu; on his watch. It’s his story. Already down in the annals. Ultimately it was THE single factor that caused the bullet: no shots, no goals, run of defeats, bottom of the table. The point though is not to rake about the ashes, but to see how quickly we can break the habit. You have to look back to go forward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, BondJovi said: We haven't been a creative team for a few seasons now. At least Cocu wanted players who would address this problem. Lampard just covered it with loans. It's true.....how many times were we dug out by a Wilson free kick or a piece of magic from Mount. We - especially the rest of the team - didn't create that many chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 46 minutes ago, cheron85 said: I was saying this all last season - Our strikers were actually pretty good at converting chances - We just weren't creating enough of them It's no surprise that Cocu went out and made wingers/creative players a priority - We got done at the start of the season by Lawrence and Waggers being out and having to rely on loads of inexperienced (but good) players to be our sole chance creators - Didn't bring Jozwiak in quick enough (thanks to that transfer embargo) and went with a still not yet fit Ibe as our other option - Plus not being able to get a Martin replacement over the line Need to get Lawrence, Jozwiak, Sibley and Ibe properly up to speed - Giving them freedom with a proper defensive midfield cover behind them and we'll get some goals (I hope) Last season we had Martin and its quite interesting you don't mention Kazim-Richards (proprer CF ) at all. Whilst Wgahorn was able to get goals with free kicks, that apart , not sure the return of Lawrence and Waghorn helped us as much as we might have hoped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBG83 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, IslandExile said: It's true.....how many times were we dug out by a Wilson free kick or a piece of magic from Mount. We - especially the rest of the team - didn't create that many chances. Lampard setup the next manager, whoever it was, to fail. Yet here we are moaning about Cocu and looking at Franks time at Derby (largely) through rose tinted specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stockport Ram Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, DRBee said: Last season we had Martin and its quite interesting you don't mention Kazim-Richards (proprer CF ) at all. Whilst Wgahorn was able to get goals with free kicks, that apart , not sure the return of Lawrence and Waghorn helped us as much as we might have hoped. Some of us hoped, but didn't really expect. Waghorn is a quality professional and I send him my warmest wishes on the arrrival of his baby boy, but he is not, and never will be, a prolific goalscorer. He needs 4 or 5 decent chances to convert. Not that we necessarily need that from an attacking fulcrum. The trouble is that Martyn is a hybrid - he's not a winger, or an out and out centre forward, or a goalscorer. Useful in a very good team, but suffers as a half jack-of-all-trades in a very poor one. Lawrence. I have to say he has learned how to work hard. He has bundles of talent, but time and time again he makes decisions which you'd expect to have been ironed out of an eleven year old starlet with a half decent IQ. I so want him to perform, because he really can, but I have given up on him, because his decision making is so, so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 53 minutes ago, Ellafella said: I’d like to see more @RoyMac5What would you say is his USP? He’s bagged a few for the U23s but they’re a good side and often put on a plate. Looks slender, good feet but what else? I admit to having not seen as much of him as JHL, but he looked interesting in the two minutes we saw. ? I was surprised that he didn't look 'so' small nor overawed by Wycombe's physicality, so maybe Coventry might be even more suited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leroyoftherovers Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: Might see more of Stretton? If we do see more of him I hope it's not like Saturday, the young lads won't benefit from being thrown on for the last 5 minutes to try and save a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Just now, leroyoftherovers said: If we do see more of him I hope it's not like Saturday, the young lads won't benefit from being thrown on for the last 5 minutes to try and save a game. True, I assumed it was to get his first appearance over with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leroyoftherovers Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Just now, RoyMac5 said: True, I assumed it was to get his first appearance over with. Yep your probably right but as a young lad I would like my first senior appearance to be memorable like it really meant something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Cocu wanted us to be exceptionally good at a specific way of playing. We weren't good at it. Not enough to be effective. And we did not have the time to wait for the team to be assembled that could do it. The glimpese we had of it working were all fleeting, never materalised into more. If they could've done it at a higher tempo the gaps for neat forward passes would've been there, but by being so slow they all got closed off leaving only sidways and back or lose the ball. To this day I don't believe it was case of the displays reflecting what was envisioned. The managment failing was the wrong dream, it was not recognising could be achieved by the resources available. Earlier in MM days, he might have succeeded by being able to spend £25m on players who could. Either way, it was failing and after the QPR and Barnsley games i agreed he had to go. I was a believer, but it was clear the reality had put an end to it. Legacy of it? I think there's some unlearning to be done. I don't think the squad have what it takes for survival football. I mostly think they need someone to believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Ellafella said: It’s irrelevant really what the cause was. Fact is it happened and is irrevocably tied to Cocu; on his watch. It’s his story. Already down in the annals. Ultimately it was THE single factor that caused the bullet: no shots, no goals, run of defeats, bottom of the table. The point though is not to rake about the ashes, but to see how quickly we can break the habit. You have to look back to go forward... This i disagree with. It's only tied to Cocu if you deliberately apply a reductionist approach. It's very clear Cocu was let down by recruitment- I highly doubt it was Cocu that rejected the 2nd year of Martin's contract, and it definitely wasn't him that failed to land Dursan and didn't sign an adequate alternative either. These would big factors in our downfall, and while Cocu takes his share of the blame for on-field performances, it isn't fair to also hold him accountable for our recruitment failings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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