BondJovi Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Steve How Hard? said: I think it is very cynical to think his form is down to his contact coming to an end. If I recall correctly, he was in very good form under Cocu prior to him being attacked. It's testament to his character that he has mentally and physically fought his way back from that cowardly attack. I just hope there is enough in the coffers to be able to offer him a deserved new deal. There is no doubt his current form will have the vultures circling. Wisdom and Clarke had formed a great partnership last season. Any outside playoff hope we had, eroded with Wisdom being attacked. I think Wisdom just needed more time to recover, he clearly wasn't ready at the start of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 You must mean the recent incline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Not sure about some of the comments on here about Keogh tainting his name with Derby if the club do not win their appeal against the ET verdict of Keogh being unfairly dismissed. If the appeal isn't upheld then this would just vindicate Keogh in his actions and show that the club were in the wrong to do this and not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 40 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Not sure about some of the comments on here about Keogh tainting his name with Derby if the club do not win their appeal against the ET verdict of Keogh being unfairly dismissed. If the appeal isn't upheld then this would just vindicate Keogh in his actions and show that the club were in the wrong to do this and not the other way around. Not really. It would only show that Derby failed to perform all of the required box-ticking exercises to satisfy a convoluted & pedantic process which is massively biased in favour of the employee, but asks employers to jump through endless hoops before it'll accept that the employee should have been sacked. See the other thread with people who've actually gone through the process had their say on it - the standout being the staff member in a bank stealing money, he won his case and it was deigned that they should have offered the employee alternate employment in a non money-handling role... in a bank! Be damned any company who forgot to fill out section 1A of form 6723C and didn't file it at 3pm on a Tuesday, or did all of that and then used a different coloured inkpad for the stamp for when authorising the paperwork. It doesn't determine who's morally right and wrong, whether the actions taken were actually fair or not - it's not interested in that, it's simply about procedure. All it would prove is that Keogh & his agent have seen a way to take advantage of the situation and try to screw the club over to claim something they don't really deserve, regardless of what the tribunal rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 39 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Not sure about some of the comments on here about Keogh tainting his name with Derby if the club do not win their appeal against the ET verdict of Keogh being unfairly dismissed. If the appeal isn't upheld then this would just vindicate Keogh in his actions and show that the club were in the wrong to do this and not the other way around. I get where you're coming from with this. Legally of course he would be vindicated but, at the risk of raking up a debate that has been done many times, his case just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I'm aware my view point is a little biased as I'm looking at it with DCFCs best interests at heart. Keogh winning the appeal could be potentially very damaging for us moving forward financially. The fact remains that he put himself a position where he was unable to do his job for which he was handsomely paid. The club offered him a way out and he declined. The club was more than fair with this in my eyes. I still believe his actions are being driven by a money motivated agent. If you saw his interviews in the aftermath of the incident he didn't come across very well at all. It also seemed apparent that RK was his golden goose. I don't wish Keogh any ill harm moving forward. I always backed him whilst he was here. I just don't want a situation that was quintessentially caused by him (and the others) to damage us financially any more than it already has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 17 hours ago, Rammy03 said: No I totally agree, just generally that day at Wembley is the reason why people give Keogh a hard time I give him a hard time because I don’t think he is any good. Nothing to do with Wembley, I didn’t see what happened on the day and haven’t ever watched It back again to see what happened. I don’t like him because he is rubbish, that’s all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Coconut said: Not really. It would only show that Derby failed to perform all of the required box-ticking exercises to satisfy a convoluted & pedantic process which is massively biased in favour of the employee, but asks employers to jump through endless hoops before it'll accept that the employee should have been sacked. See the other thread with people who've actually gone through the process had their say on it - the standout being the staff member in a bank stealing money, he won his case and it was deigned that they should have offered the employee alternate employment in a non money-handling role... in a bank! Be damned any company who forgot to fill out section 1A of form 6723C and didn't file it at 3pm on a Tuesday, or did all of that and then used a different coloured inkpad for the stamp for when authorising the paperwork. It doesn't determine who's morally right and wrong, whether the actions taken were actually fair or not - it's not interested in that, it's simply about procedure. All it would prove is that Keogh & his agent have seen a way to take advantage of the situation and try to screw the club over to claim something they don't really deserve, regardless of what the tribunal rules. There's lots of things in your post that are quite untrue to be honest - none of us know whether Derby were unable to defend their case against Keogh due to a technicality or as you put it a box ticking exercise. And you use this work as some kind of insult or hollow victory in any case, if any employer fails to follow due diligence in any process then quite rightly they will fall foul of employment law at their cost. It's not like we're some thruppeny happeny back street outfit with 2 members of staff we are a large employer who should have the legal resource, knowledge and acumen to understand what the correct process is and follow it accordingly. Again have no sympathy for any large employer who then doesn't follow protocol. All your quotes about jumping through lots of hoops is just an irrelevance too, if you don't understand the importance of following the protocol or just choose not to then on your head be it and should expect to be punished accordingly. Whether Derby did or didn't follow procedure therefore is an irrelevance, the bottom line is if Keogh wins his case then he will have won end of and legally he will have been vindicated to do so by definition of the outcome. Scruples or morals have nothing to do with the final judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 2 hours ago, MuespachRam said: I didn’t see what happened on the day and haven’t ever watched It back again to see what happened. Wait, what?? How do you not watch a play off final???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said: There's lots of things in your post that are quite untrue to be honest - none of us know whether Derby were unable to defend their case against Keogh due to a technicality or as you put it a box ticking exercise. And you use this work as some kind of insult or hollow victory in any case, if any employer fails to follow due diligence in any process then quite rightly they will fall foul of employment law at their cost. It's not like we're some thruppeny happeny back street outfit with 2 members of staff we are a large employer who should have the legal resource, knowledge and acumen to understand what the correct process is and follow it accordingly. Again have no sympathy for any large employer who then doesn't follow protocol. All your quotes about jumping through lots of hoops is just an irrelevance too, if you don't understand the importance of following the protocol or just choose not to then on your head be it and should expect to be punished accordingly. Whether Derby did or didn't follow procedure therefore is an irrelevance, the bottom line is if Keogh wins his case then he will have won end of and legally he will have been vindicated to do so by definition of the outcome. Scruples or morals have nothing to do with the final judgement. Condescending & imperious as ever. The importance of following regulations is clear - don't do it and you leave yourself open to this sort of situation. I've never said the club haven't acted naively/stupidly from a legal standpoint in how they've carried out their actions, but I back them all the way in the decisions they came to & the reasons for them. You're right - the scruples or morals of the case hold absolutely no importance in the judgement, which is exactly why it's a hollow victory. If you reduce the thread to a clinical, emotionless discussion on the strict formalities of the case then sure, hooray for Keogh! This is a football forum though, not a legal debate club. He can be as legally vindicated as he likes, but if he had anything about him as a person he wouldn't be pursuing the club for the money. Your assertion that he won't have stained his reputation because a disciplinary panel deem him to be legally correct seems pretty misguided to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, David said: Wait, what?? How do you not watch a play off final???? Put your readers on Deidre ..... I didnt see what happened on the day as I was at the other end of the ground from the flapping bug eyed idiot..... and I have never..and will never watch the game back, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 13 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: Put your readers on Deidre ..... I didnt see what happened on the day as I was at the other end of the ground from the flapping bug eyed idiot..... and I have never..and will never watch the game back, ever. Ahh. They scored. Zamora it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, David said: Wait, what?? How do you not watch a play off final???? 15 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: Put your readers on Deidre ..... I didnt see what happened on the day as I was at the other end of the ground from the flapping bug eyed idiot..... and I have never..and will never watch the game back, ever. How would we know you were at the other end of the ground unable to see if you didn't previously mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 10 minutes ago, David said: Ahh. They scored. Zamora it was. yeah, I did hear about that i think.... Still nowhere near being able to watch it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveram Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 I was directly in line behind it in club Wembley.I still get flashbacks ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 7 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said: How would we know you were at the other end of the ground unable to see if you didn't previously mention it. Because all the Derby fans were at the other end of the ground maybe...? maybe...? and i did say "i didnt see what happened on the day"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Just now, MuespachRam said: Because all the Derby fans were at the other end of the ground maybe...? maybe...? and i did say "i didnt see what happened on the day"... ok no problem, but just saying you didn't see what happened on that day implies that you just didn't watch the game. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Coconut said: Your assertion that he won't have stained his reputation because a disciplinary panel deem him to be legally correct seems pretty misguided to me. All that matters. Keogh was in the wrong and never apologised to the club or fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 39 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: Because all the Derby fans were at the other end of the ground maybe...? maybe...? and i did say "i didnt see what happened on the day"... bit like Villa for me, apparently Roos flapped at a ball he should have caught. Didn't see it that well at the time and will never watch it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 19 minutes ago, Spanish said: bit like Villa for me, apparently Roos flapped at a ball he should have caught. Didn't see it that well at the time and will never watch it again Dont watch it.....its horrific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTom92 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 There’s two sides to every story. However as a supporter of Derby County and not Keogh’s welfare my thoughts are as follows; Derby were unlucky on the night that both Bennett and Lawrence were involved. Admittedly Derby was lucky that neither sustained a subsequent injury and that their sentences didn’t stop them from contributing to the season. However Derby were unlucky in the fact that due to Bennett and Lawrence’s involvement. It made the decision to sack Keogh look callous and morally corrupt on Derby’s part. Personally I think Keogh/his agent have shown their true colours and unfortunately that means they will not be regarded in the same breathe as Bryson/Martin when I reminisce about that era. I do wish him luck at Huddersfield as he was by far not the worst player to ever wear the hallowed white shirt. However I hope we crush him in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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