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Does the recent decline show how important Keogh was?


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22 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

his little bug eyed thigh slapping blaming everyone else tantrum after a far superior defender scored for us tonight was as funny a thing as I have seen on a football pitch. 
 

Hah yep, as an entirely SUBJECTIVE viewpoint it was very nearly my highlight of the match.

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2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

What? I never even commented on anything about Keogh in the last post, what are you even saying at this point 😂? It's completely incoherent. I'm not being objective in my post saying you're not being objective. Righto. I'll leave it here.

Basically just  more semantics. What you didn't say you implied, but it can't be pinned on you because.. implication is subjective!

I will agree to leave it at that though. Have a good night!

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10 hours ago, Andicis said:

I assume with the timing of this post you somehow think one match proves some kind of a point. We absolutely have missed Keogh since he got his injury. This is just a bad, reactionary take. 

We didn’t miss Keogh, we missed an organised defence! Now we have one, and in my opinion it just proves Keogh was ‘average’ at this level. What stood him above others was his lack of injuries/suspensions. 

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Keogh was one of few players (only two?) to win two POTY awards. While this might not  have been during our glory years, it nevertheless demonstrates he was a good player for us and I think we did miss him.

Also, for a player to have played 350-odd games over around 8 years (based on what Owen said last night) and leave in the circumstances he did is a massive crying shame.

However, he didn’t look anything special last night. Just a bog standard centre half. Definitely past his best. 

Edited by LazloW
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10 minutes ago, LazloW said:

However, he didn’t look anything special last night. Just a bog standard centre half. Definitely past his best. 

 Couldn't disagree with that assessment, personally.  I think he was responsible for playing Waggy onside for the 2nd too. Thanks Keezy! Now yesterday is out the way, I can happily wish him well for the rest of the season!

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On 01/12/2020 at 13:44, Chris_Martin said:

You could argue that we are better off in some of those positions though.

I would pick these. Just can't decide between Clarke/Tomori.

 

Roos / Marshall

Bogle / Byrne

Keogh / Wisdom(Davies)

Tomori / Clarke

Malone / Forsyth(Buchanan)

Johnson / Bielik(Shinnie)

Mount / Knight(Bird)

          Holmes

Wilson / Jozwiak(Ibe)

Bennett / Waghorn(Kazim)

          Lawrence

What do we think now?

Byrne better than Bogle,

Joz not better than Wilson

and to bring the thread on track...Keogh or Wisdom?

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On 29/11/2020 at 13:29, DCFClks said:

I think it's no surprise this decline seemed to have started when Keogh left. Just show's how massive he was at the club when he was here. I think the criticism towards him went way to far at times (not including Joiners). I don't think he would have let the team perform they way they have in some of the recent matches had he still been here.  

He did excellently for us and it was a shame we couldn’t be there to say thank you for his good service, in terms of a general decline I think it’s more to do with clearing out some rubbish and missing the likes of Bryson, Keogh etc along with losing some important players through injury whilst youngsters learn their trade. We are building again

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6 minutes ago, zaragozaram said:

What do we think now?

Byrne better than Bogle,

Joz not better than Wilson

and to bring the thread on track...Keogh or Wisdom?

It's a difficult one. That season was keoghs best, but you can tell he's not at that level anymore. Wisdom has improved as a centre back and is the better player. 

The likes of Johnson and Huddlestone were useful as experience and offered something else in that position but there's no doubt Bielik is our best player.

I think Clarke is a top player at this level, really solid defender. Hardly puts a foot wrong. Good on the ball as well. The only thing missing is the pace, Tomori had a lot of that.

What we do miss at the moment which we had that season is a bit of creativity, intelligence and quality in the final third. The ability to pull off moments of pure brilliance. Wilson and mount provided that.

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Keogh had maybe his best season under Lampard, he was still performing at a high level and in his last three seasons was really consistent. He was a great player for us, really good servant to the club until that night at the Joiners.

But I think of the big mistakes in hindsight was not blowing up the core of the team when Lampard left. We just tried to reload with some new loanees and go again, clearly without Tomori/Wilson/Mount that side wasn’t good enough for the top six.

We’d have had a tough season last year and this year with or without Keogh. You can see the foundations to build a squad now but we could have done with shipping out Keogh and a couple others after we didn’t win at Wembley.

I wasn’t calling for it at the time but we should have taken our medicine in summer 2019.

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3 hours ago, LazloW said:

Keogh was one of few players (only two?) to win two POTY awards. While this might not  have been during our glory years, it nevertheless demonstrates he was a good player for us and I think we did miss him.

Also, for a player to have played 350-odd games over around 8 years (based on what Owen said last night) and leave in the circumstances he did is a massive crying shame.

However, he didn’t look anything special last night. Just a bog standard centre half. Definitely past his best. 

He got the 2 player of the season awards because he played almost every game. He was and still is a liability that we do not miss for one second. 
thanks for the second goal Dicky. 

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40 minutes ago, zaragozaram said:

What do we think now?

Byrne better than Bogle,

Joz not better than Wilson

and to bring the thread on track...Keogh or Wisdom?

I  think we could all tell who was the better player after 2 or 3 games.  It shows you how we as fans can over hype a player, especially if they're an academy product.  Bogle has the potential to be a fine player, and is very skilful, but every other department Byrne is a more accomplished player and has been our only consistent threat from the wings all season...

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27 minutes ago, zaragozaram said:

Roos / Marshall

Bogle / Byrne

Keogh / Wisdom(Davies)

Tomori / Clarke

Malone / Forsyth(Buchanan)

Johnson / Bielik(Shinnie)

Mount / Knight(Bird)

          Holmes

Wilson / Jozwiak(Ibe)

Bennett / Waghorn(Kazim)

          Lawrence

 

27 minutes ago, zaragozaram said:

What do we think now?

Byrne better than Bogle,

Joz not better than Wilson

and to bring the thread on track...Keogh or Wisdom?

Marshall over Roos every time

Byrne better defensively. However Bogle has a lot more potential. To be honest i'm happy with either.

Keogh or Wisdom tough call. Wisdom been playing very well lately, but does the rest of the defence make him seem better. Lets not forget Keogh was part of a side that kept 7 or 8 clean sheets in a row couple of years back. I would probably say Wisdom now as Keogh will be 35 soon. 

Clarke or Tomori. As much as i loved Tomori i have to pick Clarke he has been immense ever since joining the club. Great on the ball, Strong, Has a bit of pace(not Tomori level) and nobody ever beats him in the air. Amazed he hasn't scored yet this season. 

Buchanan over Malone. No words needed.

Bielik over Johnson

Mount over Knight

Shinnie over Holmes

Would change my pick to Wilson on this one. Jozwiak has been great but has not quite got the end product that Wilson has.

Bennett or Waghorn/Kazim. Erm............Kazim.

 

 

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I started this thread back in November when I think Keogh's departure left a massive void on the pitch and especially leadership. But maybe the win last night with Keogh returning can symbolise the moment that we don't miss him anymore. I think Wisdom has turned into an excellent leader and I could easily see him being captain, also Marshall, Shinnie and CKR.

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4 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

I started this thread back in November when I think Keogh's departure left a massive void on the pitch and especially leadership. But maybe the win last night with Keogh returning can symbolise the moment that we don't miss him anymore. I think Wisdom has turned into an excellent leader and I could easily see him being captain, also Marshall, Shinnie and CKR.

This.

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1 hour ago, DCFClks said:

I started this thread back in November when I think Keogh's departure left a massive void on the pitch and especially leadership. But maybe the win last night with Keogh returning can symbolise the moment that we don't miss him anymore. I think Wisdom has turned into an excellent leader and I could easily see him being captain, also Marshall, Shinnie and CKR.

Sounds fair enough, but I'd say it symbolises the moment a lot of people will have realised that we don't miss him, but in reality it's many months after the fact.

I've read your first post - "I don't think he would have let the team perform they way they have..."  and I've read the quoted post "a massive void... especially leadership" 

...but that's exactly problem. His leadership was non-existent when it really mattered, when things weren't falling for us. He absolutely would allow for those performances - just as he was helpless to stop the fall from grace under McClaren, just as he allowed the events of 24 September 2019 to unfold as they did.

There was an immediate negative impact upon him leaving (we ended up having to play a CB combo of Davies & Forsyth at times - we missed having a Keogh type player, not necessarily Keogh himself) but it was more the shock of the situation & damage to team morale (in which he played his part) than something which was ever going to have direct long term consequences.

Edited by Coconut
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