Does the recent decline show how important Keogh was?

[Xlor]

These 'we miss keogh/Martin' threads are wearing me out. If they were messi/vvd then I'd agree but it's a sad state of affairs when fans think these 2 are the answer. 

One was a donkey and the other didnt score enough. It's like missing syphilis and gonorrhea 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

2 minutes ago, Xlor said:

These 'we miss keogh/Martin' threads are wearing me out. If they were messi/vvd then I'd agree but it's a sad state of affairs when fans think these 2 are the answer. 

One was a donkey and the other didnt score enough. It's like missing syphilis and gonorrhea 

Keogh saved us a lot of times, gained us loads of points. Martin scored loads of goals, gained us loads of points. 

[rynny]

9 minutes ago, Xlor said:

These 'we miss keogh/Martin' threads are wearing me out. If they were messi/vvd then I'd agree but it's a sad state of affairs when fans think these 2 are the answer. 

One was a donkey and the other didnt score enough. It's like missing syphilis and gonorrhea 

The player that has scored the most goals for this club in the last 30 years didn't score enough goals? ?

[Yani P]

No would be my simple answer..

But I do miss his crazed psycho nutter expressions..  

[brady1993]

It's a weird one because I think it's yes and no. 

If he was still at the club and never got injured he'd still be the best centre back available, a clear first choice and fill a position we've found problematic to fill ever since joinersgate. And with that in mind it's likely we'd be doing better than what we are.

However I think we still had more than enough to do a lot better than what we currently are.

[DCFC Kicks]

1 hour ago, brady1993 said:

It's a weird one because I think it's yes and no. 

If he was still at the club and never got injured he'd still be the best centre back available, a clear first choice and fill a position we've found problematic to fill ever since joinersgate. And with that in mind it's likely we'd be doing better than what we are.

However I think we still had more than enough to do a lot better than what we currently are.

Agree. Technically wise he was a top end championship player with good feet and passing for a CB. But his influence and prominence at the club was huge on and off the pitch. He was the leading voice of the player's for many years, even stories (whether true or not) of him leading the way going directly to Mel about managers. Whether you think he'd should have gone to Mel or not, it still shows his massive influence. For years when you'd ask another clubs fans about Derby, they'd instantly think of Keogh. He became synonymous with the club. Even now a lot of the players still go on holidays hosted by him etc. He used to carry so much responsibility. These are the things I think we miss the most. 

[DCFC Kicks]

2 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

Wasn't aware i'd ever said that.

Well that's the way you laid it out in your original post. Yes, we have better Goalie now, and possibly a few other positions. But that squad 2 seasons ago is better than now.

Still agree that the manager is still the more important thing.

[Chris_Martin]

2 hours ago, Xlor said:

These 'we miss keogh/Martin' threads are wearing me out. If they were messi/vvd then I'd agree but it's a sad state of affairs when fans think these 2 are the answer. 

One was a donkey and the other didnt score enough. It's like missing syphilis and gonorrhea 

His goals record for Derby is better than one in three though. Not to mention all the assists he got as well. 

Don't understand your point.

[CBRammette]

"But his influence and prominence at the club was huge on and off the pitch" yes perhaps he should have directed that influence more positively

[DCFC Kicks]

2 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

"But his influence and prominence at the club was huge on and off the pitch" yes perhaps he should have directed that influence more positively

Yes, maybe he should have. But whether he was a positive or negative he still left a massive void when he left.

[CBRammette]

1 hour ago, DCFClks said:

Yes, maybe he should have. But whether he was a positive or negative he still left a massive void when he left.

Depends if you were a fan of his or not really. 

[DCFC_Sloth]

I think we do miss Richard Keogh, he was a leader, well liked by the dressing room, captained the club for a long time under many managers and was a very good player for the level before his injury. That being said, I don't think our decline is related to only Richard Keogh, we did very well without him for a long time last season. I think the problem comes from a large turn over of players and in that came the loss of a lot of experience through the squad. Keogh, Martin, Johnson, Huddlestone, Bryson, Nugent, Carson, Cole have all left the club in the last 16 months or so. This must have a huge knock on to the dressing room in general due to the amount of leaders who have left. 

I would also put a lot of emphasis on the importance of our home support as well. We have gates of between 25 and 30,000 every week and that is a big thing for us. Teams are intimidated by it and it mounts a lot of pressure on both our own players to perform and the opposition not to make mistakes. Its not coincidence that so much of our recent success has been built almost entirely on home form. In the current climate Derby having no fans is impacting things much more than a lot of other clubs. We don't have a particularly hostile support, but it is big and that counts for a lot. 

So, between losing a large number of leaders from our squad and losing the fans, we are really suffering. I don't think Richard Keogh, even pre injury, walks into this team and we start winning every match, but he would probably help turn results a little. The 'problem' is far more nuanced than that and there are many factors coming together to create the situation we find ourselves in currently.

[Rample]

Keogh was okay, he had good and bad moments, but realistically I'm not sure we'd be doing better with him.

He would still have missed last season, and returned to pre-season a year older and more than likely feeling some efffects from the injuries.

Grant McCann, Hull manager, said after their recent match, their game plan was to get at Keogh and capitalise on his mistakes.

I stopped by an MK Dons forum, and he's been getting a constant barrage. 42 pages include:

"There's always one player fans hate and who the Manager plays. It seems Keogh is that guy this season." 

"So awfully bad, Keogh and Cargill needs dropping" (Sic)

"the opposition aggressively counter attack and we’re left with just our 3cb’s (sometimes 2), which include Lewington and Keogh who are running in quick sand"

" Keogh was a mistake machine at Derby. He looks like a weak link here too. Whoops. Punished."

"WTF was Keogh doing before the ball came in? He wasn't even watching the ball and only turned round when it was already too late."

"for the second game running looked like an academy graduate learning his craft, and bloody poorly at that."

"He passed the ball out of play under no pressure which led to their goal. For the second time in the space of a few minutes as well.
He's cost us two goals today."

"total liability needs dropping for the next match"

"He’s been full of calamities, I don’t actually think he’s that good but for some reason everyone seems to think he’s good just because he’s played in the championship his entire career. He’s madly overrated."

 

 

[Ash_SJ]

On 30/11/2020 at 07:32, Spanish said:

Ash I agree in part but it doesn’t mean you have to retain the experience forever.  We hace acquired platers poorly and probably disposed of them in a worse manner.  I don’t know why you mention Rooney though this is nothing to do with him

I mention Rooney because he is one of the few experienced leaders we have in the squad

 

[Jack Willow]

Keogh was undervalued by many fans, but it's quite clear how important he was for the team, as he his replacement hasn't been found yet.

[Chris_Martin]

16 hours ago, Jack Willow said:

Keogh was undervalued by many fans, but it's quite clear how important he was for the team, as he his replacement hasn't been found yet.

I think Keogh was much more important for the club off the pitch than he was on it. He was our leader and Mr. Motivator, on the pitch he quite often made me nervous but thats all part of the legend of Richard Keogh! very hard to replace someone like that. 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

On 01/12/2020 at 19:14, Rample said:

Keogh was okay, he had good and bad moments, but realistically I'm not sure we'd be doing better with him.

He would still have missed last season, and returned to pre-season a year older and more than likely feeling some efffects from the injuries.

Grant McCann, Hull manager, said after their recent match, their game plan was to get at Keogh and capitalise on his mistakes.

I stopped by an MK Dons forum, and he's been getting a constant barrage. 42 pages include:

"There's always one player fans hate and who the Manager plays. It seems Keogh is that guy this season." 

"So awfully bad, Keogh and Cargill needs dropping" (Sic)

"the opposition aggressively counter attack and we’re left with just our 3cb’s (sometimes 2), which include Lewington and Keogh who are running in quick sand"

" Keogh was a mistake machine at Derby. He looks like a weak link here too. Whoops. Punished."

"WTF was Keogh doing before the ball came in? He wasn't even watching the ball and only turned round when it was already too late."

"for the second game running looked like an academy graduate learning his craft, and bloody poorly at that."

"He passed the ball out of play under no pressure which led to their goal. For the second time in the space of a few minutes as well.
He's cost us two goals today."

"total liability needs dropping for the next match"

"He’s been full of calamities, I don’t actually think he’s that good but for some reason everyone seems to think he’s good just because he’s played in the championship his entire career. He’s madly overrated."

 

 

A few quotes from some MK dons fans doesn’t change what I and others saw over the years- he was a very good player for Derby and made some really important tackles and blocks when we needed it. No idea about his current form etc but we don’t have a defender at this club who has proven to be better than him in my opinion. He was consistently picked by several managers, they can’t have all been wrong. 
At one point when we had Carson and Keogh, they saved us so many times I think people have forgotten. 

He was made a scapegoat by some because of Wembley (Buxton got no flak though) and then other fans just jumped on the bandwagon waiting to pounce on any mistake he made. 

[May Contain Nuts]

Not even one ducking iota.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Coconut said:

Not even one ducking iota.

I assume with the timing of this post you somehow think one match proves some kind of a point. We absolutely have missed Keogh since he got his injury. This is just a bad, reactionary take. 

[May Contain Nuts]

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I assume with the timing of this post you somehow think one match proves some kind of a point. We absolutely have missed Keogh since he got his injury. This is just a bad, reactionary take. 

No, many, many matches and our current record prove the point. This is just the first time he's directly faced us.

He would not have added ANYTHING to our performances under Rooney and even only a minimal amount under Cocu.

Clarke is superior to Keogh in every way that matters. Wisdom is a better passer than Keogh. Edmundson is a far bigger aerial threat and defensively will develop to, at the very least, the level Keogh was at after 6 years here.

Keogh's little paddy after our first goal says everything about him.