sage Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 minute ago, hintonsboots said: In the 7-1 thrashing by Hungary it was 4-2-4. We really need some takeover news, now we’re discussing formations from 1954. Di Stefano didn't play for Hungary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 29 minutes ago, sage said: Puskas and Di Stefano didn't play in a 442. Smart Alec ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 25 minutes ago, whiteroseram said: You're Mike Bassett and I claim my £5 It takes all sorts .. do you do contactless ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 41 minutes ago, jono said: Ok so I am going to be shot down by sages who know everything about heat maps, phases, overloads and numbers in midfield, passes per minute and all the rest of techi football..... but I love 442 you defend the full width of the pitch, you advance the full width of the pitch. You also have 4 midfielders. Then, depending on how you are doing the wingers and fullbacks move up and down in pairs or in the case of the wingers move inside to help out if the CM 2 are getting pushed. You have 2 CM’s who cover each other or work together. Then you have what we really lack .... two strikers working in tandem .. pulling CB’s out of position, confounding well worked plans and feeding off each other. And with 2 of them there you have a chance of at least one in the box to meet a cross from your flying wingers who are over lapping with your LB and RB. 4231, 451, 434 .. ack, it’s just numbers ... need 2 front men ... Puskas / Di Stefano .. Keegan / Toshack .. Rebrov /Shevchenko .. Cole / Yorke The fundamentals of 11 strong men and a ball doesn’t change. Would love to play this formation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 36 minutes ago, Dimmu said: Under Cocu, we mostly defended with flat 4-4-2 when opposition was in our half. If we pressed, it was most likely with 4-4-2 diamond. As does many other teams as well, never mind what the graphics tell before the game, when was this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 25 minutes ago, sage said: Only 1 Sage young man. We’re going to sit down in my office, have a cup of tea and chat, then after about 10 minutes we’re going to agree that I’m right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, jono said: We’re going to sit down in my office, have a cup of tea and chat, then after about 10 minutes we’re going to agree that I’m right Oh I think you'd need far more than 10 minutes to convince anyone that you're right. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil62uk Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Couldnt careless what formation we use aslong as it's a winning formation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelloram Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 We had perfect opportunity to play two strikers in tandem last season whom I'm sure would have been a great partnership but we've missed the boat now until we find another two. Instead we decided to accommodate and build the team and system around at best one good game n 5 players like Lawrence?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said: when was this? Whenever we played a 4231 we would defend as a 442 more often than not with the striker and 10 pressing in tandem and the wide forwards dropping back. On the ball it would transition to a 4231 (well with a degree of fluidity) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Whenever we played a 4231 we would defend as a 442 more often than not with the striker and 10 pressing in tandem and the wide forwards dropping back. On the ball it would transition to a 4231 (well with a degree of fluidity) when did this happen?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 We don't have a hold up striker to play lone frontman, I think we all agree on that. How would a two work? Could see it working with Waghorn and a quick guy, well, better than Waghorn's Chris Martin impersonation anyway. I leaves you having 2 in central midfield though and potentially exposing the back 4 a lot. I could see it working with one of Bielik or Bird doing the more defensive role and one of Knight or Sibley doing the more attacking role of the 2. I can't see it working with Rooney shoehorned into one of the midfield roles in a 2 or one of the striker roles, although we'd be less likely to get pasted if we kept Rooney away from defensive duties in that kind of a set up. I still don't see massive cause for enthusisam if we change to a 4-4-2 TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Chris_Martin said: when did this happen?? Well it wasn't an aggressive press was just using it to describe how we set up and to back up that @Dimmu was right in what he said. Personally I think we should shift to a proper 433 and ditch Rooney but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, chelloram said: We had perfect opportunity to play two strikers in tandem last season whom I'm sure would have been a great partnership but we've missed the boat now until we find another two. Instead we decided to accommodate and build the team and system around at best one good game n 5 players like Lawrence?. I was going to like your post but if Lawrence was one of a two then we might have seen something. Personally though, I think Martin and Marriott would have worked very well and could never understand why we didn’t see it ..Marriott is a feeder and Martin could have supplied him so many bog off deals .. but hey ho I know eff all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: We don't have a hold up striker to play lone frontman, I think we all agree on that. How would a two work? Could see it working with Waghorn and a quick guy, well, better than Waghorn's Chris Martin impersonation anyway. I leaves you having 2 in central midfield though and potentially exposing the back 4 a lot. I could see it working with one of Bielik or Bird doing the more defensive role and one of Knight or Sibley doing the more attacking role of the 2. I can't see it working with Rooney shoehorned into one of the midfield roles in a 2 or one of the striker roles, although we'd be less likely to get pasted if we kept Rooney away from defensive duties in that kind of a set up. I still don't see massive cause for enthusisam if we change to a 4-4-2 TBH. But what are you wingers if they aren’t part of the midfield ? Surely they shift to helping the middle when we are on the back foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustOneBiblicalKazim Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 How many of the best teams in the last 10 years have played 442? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, jono said: But what are you wingers if they aren’t part of the midfield ? Surely they shift to helping the middle when we are on the back foot. I did say central midfield, but point taken. On the other hand, do you see Tom Lawrence doing that role particually well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 27 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Well it wasn't an aggressive press was just using it to describe how we set up and to back up that @Dimmu was right in what he said. Personally I think we should shift to a proper 433 and ditch Rooney but that's just me. yep, completely agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 hour ago, jono said: Ok so I am going to be shot down by sages who know everything about heat maps, phases, overloads and numbers in midfield, passes per minute and all the rest of techi football..... but I love 442 you defend the full width of the pitch, you advance the full width of the pitch. You also have 4 midfielders. Then, depending on how you are doing the wingers and fullbacks move up and down in pairs or in the case of the wingers move inside to help out if the CM 2 are getting pushed. You have 2 CM’s who cover each other or work together. Then you have what we really lack .... two strikers working in tandem .. pulling CB’s out of position, confounding well worked plans and feeding off each other. And with 2 of them there you have a chance of at least one in the box to meet a cross from your flying wingers who are over lapping with your LB and RB. 4231, 451, 434 .. ack, it’s just numbers ... need 2 front men ... Puskas / Di Stefano .. Keegan / Toshack .. Rebrov /Shevchenko .. Cole / Yorke The fundamentals of 11 strong men and a ball doesn’t change. You missed Wingers with chalk on their boots! Not like this modern day soft lads always cutting in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, JustOneChrissyMartin said: How many of the best teams in the last 10 years have played 442? Not many. I think it's just a case of on average the extra midfielder is in the game more than the extra stiker. The work the team does is more or less the same no matter what the system/formation is - in 4-5-1 the advanced midfielder needs to get up to be where the second striker in a 4-4-2 would be, in a 4-4-2 you'd expect one guy to be always on the last man looking to get in a poach whilst the other guy is looking to link play, find his mate etc and so on. It's all about getting players doing what they're good at and being better at it the what the other team is doing (and getting the right players for what you want to do) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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