EFL appeal

[B4ev6is]

4 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I think it is plain to see there is a vendetta, absolutely.

We have been and continue to be punished. Transfer windows have been decimated, takeovers have either fallen through or stalled as a result.

If we end up with a fine Derby fans will hail that as a success, but just what damage has been caused by 2 years of charges by the EFL, which were laughed out of court at the first attempt.

The fact that rumour suggests if a new owner takes over any punishment would be less severe is surely proof that all of this is just a battle of egos and narcissists and it is a case of Rick Parry gunning for Mel Morris and it is us fans who are the casualties.

There should be no fine what so ever if anyone should be fined it should be boro bring league into disprutied.

[desirelines]

8 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

I think the EFL are being very clever over this. They've realised the biggest punishment they can impose on us is uncertainty and to delay our planning for next season. Without needing a judicial review or any approval they are impacting directly our chances for next season, and it doesn't cost them a penny, all they have to do is stall and delay.

Yeah, I get you. What I meant that all these clubs selling their stadiums to balance the books is a symptom of a bigger problem. The EFL twiddle their thumbs while clubs go down the drain. It's clearly not solely their fault, but they are certainly partly responsible. 

[Gringo]

Great piece by Kieran Maguire about Stokes losses, as because they were in receipt of parachute payments they can lose £61 million over the latest FFP cycle which because of Covid is now 4 years, good read.

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-financial-fair-play-5469242

[MackworthRamIsGod]

7 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Rumours are surely proof?

[Mihangel]

26 minutes ago, Asheville Ram said:

Great piece by Kieran Maguire

5 words of fiction that will ensure I'll never click on a link - A "see you" of the finest order....

[Ramfambo]

Reform could be on the cards if enough clubs want it. Championship is full of very rich owners who can fund their clubs very easily if they could. Its their cash so its up to them to decide how they spend it. However, they are restricted by the rules despite any desire to put something into the local team (coates family an example). Other clubs who bounce up and down to the PL will be terrified of what is happening to us, Stoke,  Blues, wendies and every other club of decent size who are now uncompetitive due to rules. Everything hinges on an automatic return.  the super league debacle I wouldn't be surprised to see PL2 resurface and a reduction in PL to 16 or so clubs in each league. The money generation would be huge and attractive to Norwich,  fulham, WBA and so on. Starves the smaller clubs sadly and takes the romance out of small teams competing fairly. Ultimately the game may just have to follow the cash to fund quality TV time. Very sad but bigger clubs will hold the cards maybe but how can you say its a level field now with some getting a £50m season headstart. The gap gets bigger.

 

[Rev]

I guess now we know how Leeds fans felt all those years, when every decision goes against you to keep the big money draw in the division.

[ram59]

11 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Yup, agree with that. Problem is that we have been found guilty so I guess it's going to be hard to argue the level of material damage caused by any delay. If we'd been waiting for the appeal, and then won it, you could make a stronger case. But it's clear what's going on, they are roasting Mel slowly over an open fire for daring to challenge their way of doing things. You can have a view whether or not Mel was right to go down this path but it's clear that for the EFL revenge is proving sweet. Which, too many peoples point, is kind of ironic when your consider they are supposed to be here for the clubs.

But, have we been found guilty? From what I understand, the EFL appeal has only allowed their 'expert's'  evidence to be submitted to the LAC's hearing. There is no proof that the addition of this evidence will change the result and/or punishment arising from the new hearing.

[CornwallRam]

1 hour ago, Ramfambo said:

Reform could be on the cards if enough clubs want it. Championship is full of very rich owners who can fund their clubs very easily if they could. Its their cash so its up to them to decide how they spend it. However, they are restricted by the rules despite any desire to put something into the local team (coates family an example). Other clubs who bounce up and down to the PL will be terrified of what is happening to us, Stoke,  Blues, wendies and every other club of decent size who are now uncompetitive due to rules. Everything hinges on an automatic return.  the super league debacle I wouldn't be surprised to see PL2 resurface and a reduction in PL to 16 or so clubs in each league. The money generation would be huge and attractive to Norwich,  fulham, WBA and so on. Starves the smaller clubs sadly and takes the romance out of small teams competing fairly. Ultimately the game may just have to follow the cash to fund quality TV time. Very sad but bigger clubs will hold the cards maybe but how can you say its a level field now with some getting a £50m season headstart. The gap gets bigger.

 

I suspect we'll see the PL cut to 12, with 1 relegated outright and 1 joining the top 2-4 from the Championship in the play offs. Domestic league season ends at Christmas with the play offs in the new year. Then the 'FA Cup' runs until May with group stages and then a last 16 knock out. The top 6 in the PL enter the ESL and play from Feb to May. ESL teams play their under 23s in the FA Cup.

[Gritstone Ram]

15 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I suspect we'll see the PL cut to 12, with 1 relegated outright and 1 joining the top 2-4 from the Championship in the play offs. Domestic league season ends at Christmas with the play offs in the new year. Then the 'FA Cup' runs until May with group stages and then a last 16 knock out. The top 6 in the PL enter the ESL and play from Feb to May. ESL teams play their under 23s in the FA Cup.

Erm and I will personally did each pitch up of the team that sign up and write ********* in the centre circle.

[Van der MoodHoover]

6 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

I suspect we'll see the PL cut to 12, with 1 relegated outright and 1 joining the top 2-4 from the Championship in the play offs. Domestic league season ends at Christmas with the play offs in the new year. Then the 'FA Cup' runs until May with group stages and then a last 16 knock out. The top 6 in the PL enter the ESL and play from Feb to May. ESL teams play their under 23s in the FA Cup.

Plausible blue sky thinking there. 

Of course, when you start testing the detail the various vested interests manifest themselves through different scenarios which is why change is so difficult. 

[Ghost of Clough]

12 hours ago, Asheville Ram said:

Great piece by Kieran Maguire about Stokes losses, as because they were in receipt of parachute payments they can lose £61 million over the latest FFP cycle which because of Covid is now 4 years, good read.

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-financial-fair-play-5469242

*make a P&S loss of £61m.

Actually losses are closer to £100m, but they're comfortable inside the limit due the the 4 year cycle, P&S exemptions, and Covid allowances

[richinspain]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

*make a P&S loss of £61m.

Actually losses are closer to £100m, but they're comfortable inside the limit due the the 4 year cycle, P&S exemptions, and Covid allowances

Can someone explain the four year cycle to me please? How much are clubs now allowed to lose over those 4 years, and does it start from four years ago or stretch the three years over four?

[Sparkle]

So if Stoke city have down valued their players by £30 million due to covid can we do the same as that way they will owe the club money ?

[Ghost of Clough]

38 minutes ago, richinspain said:

Can someone explain the four year cycle to me please? How much are clubs now allowed to lose over those 4 years, and does it start from four years ago or stretch the three years over four?

19/20 and 20/21 losses are averaged.

Then add the losses from the previous two seasons (17/18 and 18/19).

The limit will still be £39m for a side who were in the Championship over those 4 years

[kevinhectoring]

13 hours ago, ram59 said:

But, have we been found guilty? From what I understand, the EFL appeal has only allowed their 'expert's'  evidence to be submitted to the LAC's hearing. There is no proof that the addition of this evidence will change the result and/or punishment arising from the new hearing.

Yes guilty and the case has been remitted to the IDC for sanctions to be determined. Any sanctions then levied can be appealed. Anyone can be forgiven for not knowing we were ‘guilty’ because that minor detail was not made clear in the club’s statement. 

[angieram]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

19/20 and 20/21 losses are averaged.

Then add the losses from the previous two seasons (17/18 and 18/19).

The limit will still be £39m for a side who were in the Championship over those 4 years

What's the limit for sides who were in the Prem for some of them?

[Ghost of Clough]

5 minutes ago, angieram said:

What's the limit for sides who were in the Prem for some of them?

Depends which season(s), I think these are the figures:

1 season in PL = £61m

2 seasons in PL = £83m

1 season in PL (last season) = £50m

2 season in PL (including last season) = £72m

3 seasons in PL (including last season)= £94m

[cheron85]

Guys - Am I reading it right that now the EFL have announced the teams for the championship 21/22 they won't be able to relegate us ahead of the season?

I know there's a very complex system in place to generate fixtures based on geography so they couldn't simply swap us for Wycombe at a later date 

I've not been following the thread for a while so apologies if this has already been flagged!

[i-Ram]

10 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Guys - Am I reading it right that now the EFL have announced the teams for the championship 21/22 they won't be able to relegate us ahead of the season?

I know there's a very complex system in place to generate fixtures based on geography so they couldn't simply swap us for Wycombe at a later date 

I've not been following the thread for a while so apologies if this has already been flagged!

Can’t believe the fixture organisation is that complex. Not if the EFL are in charge. And let’s say Preston go into administration tomorrow and are unable to fulfil fixtures, I would have thought it 99.9% certain that there would be a promotion for Wycombe.

Its all not relevant anyway. We are not going to be summarily demoted.