We've got 5 subs and we're gonna use them

[Carl Sagan]

With the change in the rules leading to five substitutes, we need our coaches to change their mindset and make the most of this. Take a leaf out of Eddie Jones's handbook with the England egg-chasing team. From now on we don't have a first 11 and the substitutes' bench. We need to have "starters" and "finishers" and a plan to change the game. 

Given there are only three windows for substitutions, I'd suggest we plan to change three players in one go on the hour mark. We should have our forward players run themselves and their defenders into the ground, so they we can bring on three fresh players for the final 35 minutes and exploit this. 

Then you leave a further two changes for tactics and/or injuries as the game heads into the closing stages. 

Let's be a bit smarter and proactive than we are at present. I'm very disappointed we hadn't planned this for today's game against a team in Bristol City who should have been tiring at the end having not trained properly due to Covid for two weeks. Missed opportunity. 

[Uptherams]

Agreed. Steve Mac would do it. 

[Millenniumram]

I was very surprised to see us not make changes earlier in the second half today. One of the main criticisms of Cocu was he was too slow to react and make subs, and we threw away leads as a result. I thought at the very least Rosenior might bring on Sibley earlier today, when it was clear Holmes was struggling. Instead, he left the major changes until after we were already losing. Too late. Another one to add to the long list of how nothing actually changed today after sacking Cocu.

[Carl Sagan]

Today (home to Preston) we played with 10 men for virtually the entire match, against the opposition's 16 and the ref so 10 vs 17. And with quick turnarounds between all games, those 10 are going to be absolutely exhausted for the next games, which we may well lose as a result. Instead, half of them could have been rested with fresh legs coming on. Someone like Jordon Ibe will never become match fit if he's never played. Louie Sibley will never recover his scoring touch for the first team if he only gets a couple of minutes here and there.

What on earth is possessing Rooney and his coaches not to use any substitutes during the main game, rather than the 5  permitted? Why do they handicap the team this way against the opposition's fresher players?

To add to the stupidity, in both of the last 2 games Rooney has brought on a time-wasting sub in the 95th of 95 minutes, leading the referee inevitably to play an additional 90 seconds, today losing us the match. Referees cannot be seen to be falling for a timewasting exercise, so play on for longer in order to prove the point.

Rooney has to take a good look at himself after today's loss and sit down with the other coaches and maybe McClaren to work out how to make effective use of 5 substitutes from now on. We should be making at least 4 changes every game to keep the players fresh and add to our attacking threat against tired defenders.

[DCFC1976]

4 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Today (home to Preston) we played with 10 men for virtually the entire match, against the opposition's 16 and the ref so 10 vs 17. And with quick turnarounds between all games, those 10 are going to be absolutely exhausted for the next games, which we may well lose as a result. Instead, half of them could have been rested with fresh legs coming on. Someone like Jordon Ibe will never become match fit if he's never played. Louie Sibley will never recover his scoring touch for the first team if he only gets a couple of minutes here and there.

What on earth is possessing Rooney and his coaches not to use any substitutes during the main game, rather than the 5  permitted? Why do they handicap the team this way against the opposition's fresher players?

To add to the stupidity, in both of the last 2 games Rooney has brought on a time-wasting sub in the 95th of 95 minutes, leading the referee inevitably to play an additional 90 seconds, today losing us the match. Referees cannot be seen to be falling for a timewasting exercise, so play on for longer in order to prove the point.

Rooney has to take a good look at himself after today's loss and sit down with the other coaches and maybe McClaren to work out how to make effective use of 5 substitutes from now on. We should be making at least 4 changes every game to keep the players fresh and add to our attacking threat against tired defenders.

So he makes the subs, the team become a bit disjointed with the new players taking a bit of time to get in the game and we concede, you would then say why did he change it. The team had a good shape we’re doing fine and if CKR hadn’t got cramp I don’t think the substitution would have been made. 
And none of that is to blame for the result, that is down to Waghorn, although I don’t think the challenge was malicious it did cost us.

[rammieib]

This assumes the players coming on enhance what’s being offered on the pitch.

I don’t think anyone on our bench enhances what was on the pitch today.

[Carl Sagan]

55 minutes ago, DCFC1976 said:

So he makes the subs, the team become a bit disjointed with the new players taking a bit of time to get in the game and we concede, you would then say why did he change it. The team had a good shape we’re doing fine and if CKR hadn’t got cramp I don’t think the substitution would have been made. 
And none of that is to blame for the result, that is down to Waghorn, although I don’t think the challenge was malicious it did cost us.

We should not become disjointed because substitutions should be planned. We train for it, with "starters" and "finishers". Those players coming off know they are likely to, but also that they have to bust a gut for the first hour and leave nothing on the pitch, or they'll lose the shirt for the next game.

This is a season with games thick and fast and that is what we must plan for. It's madness to think we can rely on the same dozen players every match. Plan ahead and use the rules and make sure when we bring on our four or five substitutes it freshens the team without leaving it disjointed. It's really not rocket science.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

We should have yesterday. Evans for the last 15 mins when energy levels are depleted would have helped

[Tamworthram]

I can just imagine the posts now: “why did he take xxxxxx and/or xxxxxxx off when they/he were/was playing well, wasn’t looking tired and we were managing to compete against a team with more players. Rooney making those subs cost us the game”

[DCFC1976]

12 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

We should not become disjointed because substitutions should be planned. We train for it, with "starters" and "finishers". Those players coming off know they are likely to, but also that they have to bust a gut for the first hour and leave nothing on the pitch, or they'll lose the shirt for the next game.

This is a season with games thick and fast and that is what we must plan for. It's madness to think we can rely on the same dozen players every match. Plan ahead and use the rules and make sure when we bring on our four or five substitutes it freshens the team without leaving it disjointed. It's really not rocket science.

Granted, but things don’t always go as planned, the team was settled playing well considering the circumstances with everyone doing their job, I just don’t think that it’s a given that if we had made subs we would not have conceded.

We could have made a sub and won we’ll never know.

Ultimately Waghorn more than likely cost us the game.

[Tombo]

What is this obsession with defending everything the management are doing?

Can't wait for the Rooney love-in to end so we can start having serious conversations about tactical decisions by the manager again.

[Tamworthram]

Just now, Tombo said:

What is this obsession with defending everything the management are doing?

Can't wait for the Rooney love-in to end so we can start having serious conversations about tactical decisions by the manager again.

Just because you disagree doesn’t mean those defending Rooney are obsessed or have a love in. It’s all a matter of opinion. 
 

Do you want a serious conversation about tactical decisions, which requires different opinions, or do you want us all to just agree with you?

[SKRam]

13 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

We should not become disjointed because substitutions should be planned. We train for it, with "starters" and "finishers". Those players coming off know they are likely to, but also that they have to bust a gut for the first hour and leave nothing on the pitch, or they'll lose the shirt for the next game.

This is a season with games thick and fast and that is what we must plan for. It's madness to think we can rely on the same dozen players every match. Plan ahead and use the rules and make sure when we bring on our four or five substitutes it freshens the team without leaving it disjointed. It's really not rocket science.

Rocket science.... I see what you did there ?

[RoyMac5]

Again look at the 'strength' of the bench:

3 Forsyth

8 Bird

11 Ibe

17 Sibley

21 Roos

22 Evans

25 Holmes

40 Watson

49 Hector-Ingram

Not much choice.

[Carl Sagan]

48 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Again look at the 'strength' of the bench:

3 Forsyth

8 Bird

11 Ibe

17 Sibley

21 Roos

22 Evans

25 Holmes

40 Watson

49 Hector-Ingram

Not much choice.

I just think these are bizarre comments. I look at that bench and can immediately see we might make a 3-man switch around the hour mark bringing on 3 of Ibe, Sibley, Holmes and Bird to finish the game to rest the starters for the next match. Probably Jozwiak, Knight, Shinnie after all the work they'd done. Had Waghorn still been on it could have been all 4.

Those are strong replacements. Ibe has terrorised defenders in this division, and had a £15m Premier League move. We need to play him to regain that form. Sibley has been talked about with moves to Leeds and Wolves. He's sometimes been our best player. Holmes is an American international. Bird has been talked about with a move to Chelsea. Again, he's sometimes been our best player. It's a squad game. This is a strong bench. 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Carl Sagan said:

This is a strong bench. 

In your opinion.

Did you see Ibe in the 23s? Holmes and Bird in midfield?

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

I just think these are bizarre comments.

What is bizarre about thinking the bench isn't a strong one? You'd swap them based on cost? Bizarre! ?

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, Tombo said:

What is this obsession with defending everything the management are doing?

Can't wait for the Rooney love-in to end so we can start having serious conversations about tactical decisions by the manager again.

I could not agree more. Great points also by @Carl Sagan

It seems to have been lost in the hysteria about the referee's performance & pride in how long we battled with 10 men but the substitution decisions yesterday were appalling...and that is all on Rooney.

To play with 10 men from the 20th minute & not put on any sub until 85 mins is just staggering. Even worse, he didnt take any of the 3 man midfield off who had worked themselves into the ground...including Bielik who was clearly having some issues with his knee.

Rooney will rightfully get credit on here when we play well & he sets us up right i.e. like Swansea or Millwall. He therefore absolutely deserves criticism for his part in yesterday's defeat. The timing of the goal should not detract from the overall analysis of what happened (or didnt happen).

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Rooney will rightfully get credit on here when we play well & he sets us up right i.e. like Swansea or Millwall. He therefore absolutely deserves criticism for his part in yesterday's defeat.

I'm sure he's big enough to accept it. But what you cannot prove is that subs of the quality of Evans and Holmes would have won us points.

[BIllyD]

4 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

I just think these are bizarre comments. I look at that bench and can immediately see we might make a 3-man switch around the hour mark bringing on 3 of Ibe, Sibley, Holmes and Bird to finish the game to rest the starters for the next match. Probably Jozwiak, Knight, Shinnie after all the work they'd done. Had Waghorn still been on it could have been all 4.

Those are strong replacements. Ibe has terrorised defenders in this division, and had a £15m Premier League move. We need to play him to regain that form. Sibley has been talked about with moves to Leeds and Wolves. He's sometimes been our best player. Holmes is an American international. Bird has been talked about with a move to Chelsea. Again, he's sometimes been our best player. It's a squad game. This is a strong bench. 

You'd bring on a player that hasn't started a game for over a year, is struggling for match fitness, when your playing against 10 men and need your front players to close the space out wide. That's not even taking into account the fact we were competing well at that time.

I'm also not sure I understand the bit about playing players to regain form, unfortunately it doesn't happen like that, Sibley is young, he will have dips in his form, but he is also a player that is better when you have the ball, we have already seen tackling is not his best attribute, once again against 10 men, something you need.