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A Kamil is a horse designed by committee


Duracell
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Ignore the pun, this thread isn't about Jozwiak at all, but the amount of leaders we have.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54959979

With Wayne Rooney, Liam Rosenior, Shay Given and Justin Walker taking charge against Bristol, it's struck me how absurdly top-heavy the club has been with coaches.

That's four interim managers. If most clubs lost three first team coaches, they wouldn't have any realistic internal candidates left to take charge without dipping into the academy.

We also have Wassall who could take charge. Bird and Davies have also been captain, and I've even heard the latter suggested as a possible coach!

My question is - do we need to streamline the coaching staff?

In my opinion, Cocu or not, I still think we have a wider problem: too many cooks in the kitchen. We won't see leadership until we have fewer leaders.

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16 minutes ago, Duracell said:

Ignore the pun, this thread isn't about Jozwiak at all, but the amount of leaders we have.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54959979

With Wayne Rooney, Liam Rosenior, Shay Given and Justin Walker taking charge against Bristol, it's struck me how absurdly top-heavy the club has been with coaches.

That's four interim managers. If most clubs lost three first team coaches, they wouldn't have any realistic internal candidates left to take charge without dipping into the academy.

We also have Wassall who could take charge. Bird and Davies have also been captain, and I've even heard the latter suggested as a possible coach!

My question is - do we need to streamline the coaching staff?

In my opinion, Cocu or not, I still think we have a wider problem: too many cooks in the kitchen. We won't see leadership until we have fewer leaders.

Bang on - also think Wassall should be the main man in charge until it’s all sorted. 
 

I also think he shows the lack of real leadership we’ve had since Keogh has gone, especially on the pitch..... and he used to be called for not being one 

Edited by Mafiabob
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Just now, Mafiabob said:

Bang on - also think Wassall should be the main man in charge until it’s all sorted. 

Most senior coach at the club, and arguably the one with the most experience.

I'd love to see him oversee the next three games, albeit so I can make up for how much I unfairly criticised him during his last spell.

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Yeah, it seem a bit much. For some reason I'd just thought of it as Cocu, Twan and Chris + Rosenior for championship know how but there's loads more!

As its in a holding patternuntil the new owners bring their shiny new broom I guess it's just a case of "you guys figure it out until you're all sacked in a week or two" - how do we know who's actually going to make the decisions, or if it's a case of Shrek getting what he wants but the others getting the blame if it blows up?

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7 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Come on now, Roy, give it a rest, eh?

Cocu has gone. No need to keep this going.

It's not like still going on about Martin leaving.....oh wait.

YOU give it a rest mate!

I'm NOT going on about Martin leaving either except to say we needed a replacement. YOU keep bringing it up - you seem obsessed! 😄

YOU give your boring memes a rest, as that's the best you can do.

The point was that perhaps Cocu preferred to consider many viewpoints. The suggestion was we needed a leader!

Edited by RoyMac5
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4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

YOU give it a rest mate!

I'm NOT going on about Martin leaving either except to say we needed a replacement. YOU keep bringing it up - you seem obsessed! 😄

YOU give your boring memes a rest, as that's the best you can do.

The point was that perhaps Cocu preferred to consider many viewpoints. The suggestion was we needed a leader!

Who is this Chris Martin. Did he play for us.

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I honestly think it's been a big part of the problem this season. At multilple times there has looked there has been multiple competing ideas pulling in different directions. 

Honestly if we are clearing the deck I'm up for really clearing it and starting completely fresh. 

It's why I'd also be asking Wassell to take over on an interim basis just so the players have something different and fresh view.

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56 minutes ago, Duracell said:

Ignore the pun, this thread isn't about Jozwiak at all, but the amount of leaders we have.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54959979

With Wayne Rooney, Liam Rosenior, Shay Given and Justin Walker taking charge against Bristol, it's struck me how absurdly top-heavy the club has been with coaches.

That's four interim managers. If most clubs lost three first team coaches, they wouldn't have any realistic internal candidates left to take charge without dipping into the academy.

We also have Wassall who could take charge. Bird and Davies have also been captain, and I've even heard the latter suggested as a possible coach!

My question is - do we need to streamline the coaching staff?

In my opinion, Cocu or not, I still think we have a wider problem: too many cooks in the kitchen. We won't see leadership until we have fewer leaders.

Undoubtedly. It's a resounding yes from me. Looking in from the outside, I could clearly detect evidence of the phenomenon known as "Groupthink" (see attached - read it an think back about the course of events). If you read Ryan Conway's Tweet earlier today as to why Cocu et al were "mutually agreed to leave", you'll see "fitness" and "confused tactics" being cited as reasons. If you also examine the way they went about transfer strategy, again you can see examples of a lack of "strategic thinking" and sloppy attitudes to "risk analysis". Hence we start the season without a centre forward; and as you rightly say @Duracell, the problem remains. We now have "4 interim managers". I'd love to be a "fly on the wall psychologist" observing discussions amongst Rooney, Rosenior, Walker and Given over the course of the next 3 games (they are "in charge" for that many") but we may see a continuation of "poor decisions" unless the group dynamic that we have hitherto seen, ie one built around obtaining group cohesiveness rather than the "right" decision, changes and a "leader" emerges who is able to "have the last say" on key decisions.

Also, in relation to Cocu et al, why did we have to recruit Shane Nicholson as "fitness coach" back in September (?) when we had Cocu + 3 coaches to help? What is it about fitness training that meant those guys couldn't have led on it? Rather begs belief really. 

It may be apocryphal, but Cloughie once famously remarked that the best committee is a committee of 3 with 2 absentee members. Ironic given his partnership with Peter Taylor, but he was dead right. 2 heads are better than 1 BUT there must be 1 person who is "in charge" who trumps the rest. Otherwise you get poor leadership and poor decisions. And that is what we have suffered from - no question in my mind. 

groupthink.JPG

Edited by Ellafella
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14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

YOU give it a rest mate!

I'm NOT going on about Martin leaving either except to say we needed a replacement. YOU keep bringing it up - you seem obsessed! 😄

YOU give your boring memes a rest, as that's the best you can do.

The point was that perhaps Cocu preferred to consider many viewpoints. The suggestion was we needed a leader!

Charming.

I don't think there's anything wrong with getting different viewpoints but then taking ultimate responsibility for the decision.

I do agree that we are top heavy with coaches. Even having just had three leave, there is still an over abundance.

Nevertheless, surely one of them has been assigned the "final decision maker" role. I thought I had read that it was Rooney but, in going back to find a formal reference, all articles do not specify any one of them in particular.

Then I agree, a committee would be bad in every respect.

If Rooney is the leader and pitching for the job permanently, he should keep himself out of the side and manage from the touchline. Otherwise, it will be confused by Rosenior doing the touchline duties.

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