DRBee Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: Being a season ticket holder makes you a customer, not a stakeholder. There is a big difference from the clubs perspective. The club still needs to take us seriously though. We are the equivalent of a current and future order book making an important contribution to turnover. What on earth do they think will happen to sales of season tickets 2021/22 now? Do they think folk who have committed for 20years plus will not be affected by the current shambles not to mention covid-19 financial issues for many? Mel's sole ownership was always a risk , with nobody to get his ideas through before implementing and he is the author of this shambles even allowing that events have gone against him. There are no quick fixes in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therams69 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 52 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: Sadly, you’re wrong. We’re not stakeholders, we don’t own a stake in the club. Dress it up as much you like, the cold hard facts are that we are just customers. The club offers a product and we choose whether to buy it or not. I accept we have far more emotional attachment to the club than other suppliers we buy from (so a little bit more than a traditional customer) and whilst they may not always be do the best, I’m sure the club tries to recognise that, at the end of the day if any of us choose to walk away then our seat will, eventually, be taken by somebody else. I agree we shouldn’t be referred to customers (and when the club talk about us they never do) but we’re fans/supporters not technically stakeholders that have a right to demand certain things. Disagree, I am not wrong. When Derby County was setup back in 1884 it wasn't a group offering a 'product' that would make me make a decision on whether I should buy things from it. It was setup so our city has a football club that footballers in Derby could represent our city against other cities & towns. Roll forward to 2021 and the game may have changed but the fundamentals of football have not. You just choose on how you now see it - I also call that the modern day fan era. We are stakeholders of this football club and have every right to demand certain things (within reason might I add) otherwise the club will just be ran however the owner wishes to run it and not every owner of a football club has the best interests of the club at heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRammy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I have to admit how the club are getting away with this now is beyond me , the fans should be getting some detail on this now not just the run of the mill its still on fiasco . I think personally this would have already come to a head and the club are very very lucky that we have a pandemic on our hands that are stopping fans voice the opinions at match's or outside the stadium as i do think there would have been some protests on this now . It needs a cut off point and a date putting in place of YES or NO . Im pretty sure now alot of fans would be happy for the fake sheik to go on his merry way and try take over bogner regis . What i cant agree with even if there is a legally binding contract for them to have paid wages since december that mel has not covered the players wagers so we can do transfer dealings RIGHT NOW and not be under an embargo . This isnt caring for the club mel or even your own investment as how attractive do we look in the old 3rd division . Mel who i personally think has been a decent chairman is blotting his copy book and i for one dont want to see him remembered for the wrong reasons . Again the club is very very lucky there not seeing alot of anger outside the stadium about this now . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, therams69 said: Disagree, I am not wrong. When Derby County was setup back in 1884 it wasn't a group offering a 'product' that would make me make a decision on whether I should buy things from it. It was setup so our city has a football club that footballers in Derby could represent our city against other cities & towns. Roll forward to 2021 and the game may have changed but the fundamentals of football have not. You just choose on how you now see it - I also call that the modern day fan era. We are stakeholders of this football club and have every right to demand certain things (within reason might I add) otherwise the club will just be ran however the owner wishes to run it and not every owner of a football club has the best interests of the club at heart. That might have been the case in 1884, but in 2021 its a privately owned company. Our entitlement as paying fans extends as far as the consumer protections that govern our purchases. Clubs need fans for the same reason Tesco needs customers in the shop buying food, to generate revenue. We have an emotional attachment as fans and a community that the club absolutely should consider and cater to, but they don't have to. The reason most clubs engage with fans and their respective communities is to keep fans invested and spending money, not out of some altruistic ideology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, therams69 said: Disagree, I am not wrong. When Derby County was setup back in 1884 it wasn't a group offering a 'product' that would make me make a decision on whether I should buy things from it. It was setup so our city has a football club that footballers in Derby could represent our city against other cities & towns. Roll forward to 2021 and the game may have changed but the fundamentals of football have not. You just choose on how you now see it - I also call that the modern day fan era. We are stakeholders of this football club and have every right to demand certain things (within reason might I add) otherwise the club will just be ran however the owner wishes to run it and not every owner of a football club has the best interests of the club at heart. We’ll have to agree to disagree then. Whilst not like any other business, football and running a football club has become much more of a business. I think the club has evolved significantly since it was set up so, IMO to compare what we have now to when it was set up over 130 years ago isn’t necessarily valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therams69 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: That might have been the case in 1884, but in 2021 its a privately owned company. Our entitlement as paying fans extends as far as the consumer protections that govern our purchases. Clubs need fans for the same reason Tesco needs customers in the shop buying food, to generate revenue. We have an emotional attachment as fans and a community that the club absolutely should consider and cater to, but they don't have to. The reason most clubs engage with fans and their respective communities is to keep fans invested and spending money, not out of some altruistic ideology. Dear lord.... Has it really come to mentioning 'consumer protection', 'govern our purchases' when discussing our football club?!?! Clubs will always have fans, whatever division they play in so there is no need. Obviously global recognition is beneficial but clubs dont need fans, because they already have fans and always will do. Clubs have to engage with the biggest stakeholders in the club, its not a choice and they know that and on the whole most if not all football clubs do. Should they choose not too then things start getting ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therams69 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: We’ll have to agree to disagree then. Whilst not like any other business, football and running a football club has become much more of a business. I think the club has evolved significantly since it was set up so, IMO to compare what we have now to when it was set up over 130 years ago isn’t necessarily valid. Yeah absolutely agree that it has become more of a business. Well at the end of the day you still either win, draw or lose. We should never lose sight on that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 21 minutes ago, therams69 said: Yes of course you are entitled to one. Football clubs are communities and the owners represent us as a community & fan. The minute you think you should not be entitled to an update on where our city / club / community is heading is basically saying do what you want with our club and no questions will be asked. And when you start going down that road you then get owners ruining clubs and doing what they want all because you didn't feel entitled to have something clarified. Cough cough - Blackpool, Bolton, Bury.... I stress my point again. The biggest stakeholder in the game of football are the fans. Without fans you dont have Sky TV & you dont have football clubs. So, the biggest stakeholder in Derby County Football Club are the fans. Period. People are getting muddled up with their terminologies on here. From a purely business sense you are paying to enter a private club when you purchase a season ticket, this does not then give you any right to then have a say in the running of that private club, be party to information regards the financial status of that club nor gives you the right as a shareholder to vote on the current ownership of the club at the annual AGM. If Derby County allow you access to their ground and to reserve your seat for the duration of your season ticket then they have fulfilled their business contract with you, indeed they could refuse right of entry beyond this if they can prove that you have breached the rules associated with entry to their private club accordingly. If you do not pay for a season ticket then you are afforded even less rights then this which is approaching zero regardless of whether you claim you have been supporting the club for a hundred years, deserve to be treated as a stakeholder yada yada. Baffling comments on here to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck- Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Tamworthram said: Well I guess you can expect all you like but it doesn’t mean you’ll get. And, to be blunt, we’re “customers” not shareholders. So, whilst we have a very strong interest and emotional attachment to the club, we don’t really have a “stake” (well maybe as extremely minor creditors). I understand what you’re saying, and of course you’re right. But there’s a degree of loyalty in football that moves beyond normal brand loyalty and closer to stakeholder territory. If [bigbrandsupermarket] takes my money, doesn’t provide a service, and continuously refuses to make public statements about the investment in the local store, and the type of goods I can expect to see moving forward, I would take my custom elsewhere. Your typical football supporter won’t exercise that right as a customer, but that doesn’t mean it’s reasonable to not provide similar updates on the future expectation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookiebear1 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 We arenot stakeholders in a financial sense but we are stakeholders in Derby County Football Club. The whole idea of the club is only that, an idea. The company we have no stake in whatsoever but the club we are the only reason it exists. Whithout the fans there is no Derby County. Just look at the trouble no fans is causing all clubs up n down the country. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, ck- said: I understand what you’re saying, and of course you’re right. But there’s a degree of loyalty in football that moves beyond normal brand loyalty and closer to stakeholder territory. If [bigbrandsupermarket] takes my money, doesn’t provide a service, and continuously refuses to make public statements about the investment in the local store, and the type of goods I can expect to see moving forward, I would take my custom elsewhere. Your typical football supporter won’t exercise that right as a customer, but that doesn’t mean it’s reasonable to not provide similar updates on the future expectation. Yes but you're not paying for a service though are you when entering a supermarket you are paying for goods. If the goods are faulty or sub standard then you are protected under the Consumer Rights Act. What you think is reasonable or unreasonable beyond this is irrevelant in law, you do not have any consumer rights to be updated about the financial status of the supermarket, whether they choose to share information with you regards modernisation of the store you shop in and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I am a customer - I buy a season ticket for 23 games of championship football and it comes with a list of about 50+ rules I have to follow to be allowed to use it in return I am offered professional football of varying standards. That’s their role and my role. anyone getting used to not going on a Saturday ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRammette Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 So having read through lots of pages of bickering, in summary, no news then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, CBRammette said: So having read through lots of pages of bickering, in summary, no news then? Correct but some posters need to brush up on the Consumer Rights Act 2015 it seems and rights of entry regards a private club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gisby Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, CBRammette said: So having read through lots of pages of bickering, in summary, no news then? Think there’s a bit of takeover ‘cabin fever’ setting in amongst some of us on here!!! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Derby Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I’m a stakeholder and as such I need to know if we are hurtling towards administration. If we are, then I’ve lost £600. Now some folks on here might not be concerned a great deal about that. I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_chop Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Transfer window closes in little over a week and this freak show rumbles on. We will have to sell players at vastly reduced prices to stay afloat. Then it's league 1 next season. Ain't it great being a Derby fan at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Abu Derby said: I’m a stakeholder and as such I need to know if we are hurtling towards administration. If we are, then I’ve lost £600. Now some folks on here might not be concerned a great deal about that. I am. Why would you lose £600? If you are alluding to your season ticket purchase then you would be afforded some degree of protection if you paid for it on a credit or debit card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Derby Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said: Why would you lose £600? If you are alluding to your season ticket purchase then you would be afforded some degree of protection if you paid for it on a credit or debit card. “Some”? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Abu Derby said: “Some”? No under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act your credit card provider is jointly liable along with the retailer for purchases between £100 and £30k so can claim back from them if goods have not been received and company has gone bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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